replacing recessed lighting with regular fixture

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  #1  
Old 06-05-04, 02:28 PM
michaelgillette
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Unhappy replacing recessed lighting with regular fixture

i am a my wits end, and need help!
i have existing recessed lighting inplace in a very high ceiling, i want to replace one of the units with a chandelier. i put all the necessary hardware in place to hold a chandelier. all well. now i just needed to wire it up.
i snipped the wires to the existing lighting can and wired in a regular lighting fixture. the recessed lighting has a step down transformer. power is 12v. so i put a 12v 50 watt bulb in and it worked. the chandelier requires 3 bulbs so, i used 3X 15 watt 12v bulbs. wired it together and nothing works. after much testing i decided to go back to basics and wired a single fitting directly to the wires as i did when it originally worked. no joy, i've tested 4 different bulbs so i don't think they are the problem. and i've checked and re-checked the wiring.
i tried to test the power supply in the socket that i wired in with an electrical screw driver. it caused a small spark, seeming to show that electricity was getting thru to the bulb socket.

any ideas?
 
  #2  
Old 06-05-04, 03:41 PM
J
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Everything you said sounds good, so there must be some problem in the implementation. I can't offer a theory on that other than to check your work carefully, make sure you made good connections, and use a ohmmeter to make sure there are no breaks in the wires in your chandelier. Make sure there is no tripped breaker or GFCI.

Your work may have also pulled a connection loose somewhere. Did you remove the can itself to get at the junction box? You may not be aware that these cans are removable from their housing, and that this can be done from below.
 
  #3  
Old 06-05-04, 07:03 PM
michaelgillette
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john,thanks so much for the reply. yeah i've moved the can it doesn't help much. i have the two wires i cut (which went to the original bulb) wired directly to a standard bulb holder so there is nowhere really for the flow to be broken. i wonder about having tripped a breaker. any ideas where it would be or how i'd reset it? it's impossible to see the wiring in to the junction box, i don't think i could really have loosened anything, because i have a gut feeling that it's VERY firmly wired.the only way to tell would be to cut a hole in the ceiling to see it. after having it work once already i'm loathe to do so.
any further thoughts that can spare me are very welcome

best

m
 
  #4  
Old 06-05-04, 08:51 PM
michaelgillette
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further info. i don't think that there is a circiuit breaker or gfci, just the fuse box. also about 6ft away from this project is another recessed light which is on the same wiring as my problem light and that is still working fine.(it's on the same switch).

is there anyway a breaker might be inside the actual lighting unit? i'd imagine there would be an overheating trip on it but not a resettable breaker, as it's designed to be unreachable after installation... you can see my frustration.
 
  #5  
Old 06-05-04, 09:09 PM
J
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The can has a thermal protect which might have failed. If you remove the can and connect directly to the can's junction box, you will eliminate that potential problem.
 
  #6  
Old 06-05-04, 09:34 PM
michaelgillette
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sadly i can't get to the junction box wiring without
cutting the ceiling open. i may have to though
thanks for the help
best

m
 
  #7  
Old 06-05-04, 09:41 PM
J
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Yes you can. You just haven't examined the can closely enough. On the sides of the can are screws you can remove, or tabs you can bend out, to release the can from the mounting bracket. There has to be. The National Electrical Code requires it.
 
  #8  
Old 06-05-04, 11:59 PM
michaelgillette
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ok, i'll have a look and keep you posted.. thanks for the suggestions.much appreciated
best
m
 
  #9  
Old 06-27-04, 12:49 AM
nayasauntie
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Talking recessed lighting trim chandelier

if you choose to exchange another of your recessed lights with a chandelier try going to www.cristalier.com They have chandeliers that you can attach to your pre-existing recessed lighting without having to rewire. Just a thought...
 
  #10  
Old 07-10-04, 12:41 AM
valbeth
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Wink question and answer

When I read this I assumed original can was haloger (the transformer) and that was the reason conventional bulbs wouldn't work on it....Just an idea

If fact, if any one knows a good source on mixing haloger and conventional I would ge grateful.

Am remodeling new old house are circuit goes> panel>switch on wall > out let in cieling (want for conventional pendat) I then want another cieling box (any reasonable distanse away is fine) to hang a new halogen wire system. I then would like to put another switch in wall at the end of the run/// Alternately, I could pull the power from an outlet on the wall where I want to put the end run switch..

So questions_ how should I connect the 2 cieling boxes? WILl the last swich on the wall turn on the halogen set only ( and can I put a halogen dimmer on it?)


thanks to anyone who made it this far
 
  #11  
Old 07-10-04, 02:00 PM
J
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You can't run the cable

power->switch#1->fixture#1->fixture#2->switch#2

and have each switch control it's own light, unless you run black/red/white cable from switch#1 to fixture#1 to fixture#2. Even so, this would be a very goofy solution.

There are a million ways to do this right. I can't suggest which is best for you without seeing what you have to work with. Tell us more.

If all the walls and ceiling are open and you can freely run cable anywhere you want, then my recommendation would be:

power->switch#1->fixture#1, and
switch#1->switch#2->fixture#2.
 
  #12  
Old 07-13-04, 10:45 PM
valbeth
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Question convention and halogen mix

Sorry it took me so long to get back, but the R side of my keyboard wouldn't work...I discovered I really needed the letter I!

Okay, I will try to be more coherent....

Right now, the setup is Circuit box to cieling box to switch (or it may go to switch first...) I want to use this center box for a conventional pendant light. But, I also want to put a holgen wire system in. So, I need another electrical box to attach the halogen system to.

I have 2 choices for a source of power for this new cieling box: the existing cieling box in the center of the room, or an outlet on the N wall. If possible, I would like to be able to switch the halogen lights seperately from the center pendant, and a dimmer would be even better, but not necessary.

Right now, thanks to the plumbers, the whole NE corner of my cieling plaster is torn down, and the joists are showing. This is from the center box to the N and E walls.

The switch for the current cieling box is on the S wall. I don't care where the switch for the halogen system goes, but because the NE cieling is open it would be easier to put the new switch on the N wall across the room from the current switch. However, it's not a big room, and I have to fix the cieling anyway, so fishing it over to the S wall is not a big problem either.

I hope this makes more sense....

Yell if I forgot anything, and THANKS for the help!!
 
  #13  
Old 07-14-04, 08:50 AM
J
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Right now, the setup is Circuit box to cieling box to switch (or it may go to switch first...)
We can't do anything until you find out which. Do you need help figuring it out?
 
  #14  
Old 07-14-04, 06:23 PM
valbeth
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halogen and conventonal

Well, my main problem is I'm not going up there until Friday....

But actually, I assume I need to look at the cieling box. If it has 2 sets of wires connected (one from box and one to switch) then it is going there first.

Is this what I should do??

I REALLY appreciate all this help!

Val
 
  #15  
Old 07-14-04, 08:14 PM
J
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There are lots of ways to do this. If possible, I prefer to take power to the switch before the light, since this offers fewer ways of screwing it up. Here are some ideas:

Power-switch1-light1 and switch1-switch2-light2.
Power-light1-switch1 and light1-light2-switch2.
Power-light1-switch1 and light1-switch2-light2.

I like the first way best.
 
 

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