wire nuts, sizes, colors, useage, etc

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  #1  
Old 11-23-04, 09:03 PM
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wire nuts, sizes, colors, useage, etc

are wire nuts allowed(according to the NEC) to be used for connecting light fiixture wires to 12-2 solid copper NM ?

if not then what is proper and safe way to connect 16 18 guage stranded light fixture wires to 12-2 NM copper solid ?

i know ther eis no way to twist them together, and i wouldnt trust that anyways, but what about soldering ? is soldering allowed for light fixture connections ?

wire nuts come with light fixtures but they are horribly cheap and really small and are not crimp kind

plus i dont even know if they are big enough for use with 12-2 conductors

im at a loss here

is there a table anywhere i can see what combinations and wire types and quantities of such can be used with which wire nuts ? yellow, red, orange, etc ?

or are wire nuts colors not in relation to size ?

what about connecting several NM 12-2 conductors ?

wire nuts or what ?

i guess apparently when you use wire nuts you are not supposed to twist the connectors together

should i re-do the ones i did twist together and use wire nuts on then ?


i thought twisting AND using wire nuts would be way better than using just wire nuts alone


apparently not ?


thanks
 
  #2  
Old 11-24-04, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fast68
are wire nuts allowed(according to the NEC) to be used for connecting light fiixture wires to 12-2 solid copper NM ?
yes they are.
if not then what is proper and safe way to connect 16 18 guage stranded light fixture wires to 12-2 NM copper solid ?

i know ther eis no way to twist them together, and i wouldnt trust that anyways, but what about soldering ? is soldering allowed for light fixture connections ?
Do not solder. Just twist the fixture wire around the solid.

wire nuts come with light fixtures but they are horribly cheap and really small and are not crimp kind

plus i dont even know if they are big enough for use with 12-2 conductors

im at a loss here

is there a table anywhere i can see what combinations and wire types and quantities of such can be used with which wire nuts ? yellow, red, orange, etc ?

or are wire nuts colors not in relation to size ?

what about connecting several NM 12-2 conductors ?

wire nuts or what ?

i guess apparently when you use wire nuts you are not supposed to twist the connectors together

should i re-do the ones i did twist together and use wire nuts on then ?


i thought twisting AND using wire nuts would be way better than using just wire nuts alone


apparently not ?


thanks
Go here and click on any oone of the tpes of nuts. You will get a chart that show the sizes and combo of wires you can use in them.
http://www.idealindustries.com/wt/Tw...Connectors.nsf
 
  #3  
Old 11-24-04, 10:17 AM
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ok why do they make so many different ones ??

they all have the same type of threads right ?

just different diameters ?

i see that crimpable wire nuts are not shown or mentioned

are they not NEC ?

wouldnt crimpable ones be better than solid ones ?

and are we supposed to tape wire nut connections ?

im sure we are, but i dont know for sure ?


its sad that NEC books are not publicly viewable

they know that DIY's are going to perform electrical work in this country, it is extremely common occurance, they should make NEC codes book viewable for those who cannot in any way shape or form afford to hire anyone licensed to perform work for them, not in this world with high labor costs and fees and permits and so forth, its a big mess, ppl like me and alot of ppl on this forum asking questions like mine are stuck in the same way, want to do the work correctly and will follow the NEC, like i want to, but cannot find out very much information at all andjust kind of get a runaround and find out about half the info needed to do a job in this field correctly/safely

if ppl were informed and able to find out everything needed to do this work well then i dont see how there could be very many risks and disasters

because DIY's are going to perform their own work no matter what, unless contractors and such start doing work for cheap, real cheap, so we could maybe somehow afford to have them come in and do the work for us,

but that wil never happen in todays world

we have no access to any code book

it makes me mad
so i have to go by logic and assumptions and just hope for the best

which is most dangerous

is it not ?

i am frustrated now


thanks for anything further
 
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Old 11-24-04, 11:26 AM
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ok went out and got some red and yellow wire connectors, wing type ones

they dont even carry crimpable ones

do crimpable wire nuts even exist anymore

does NEC aloow them to be used ??

apparently not

i look on the boxes to try and figure out what ones i need to connect two 12 guage conductors together and which ones i need to connect an 18 guage and a 12 guage together and i am just lost as to what the listings on the box even mean,

here is first batch of numbers from the box with red wing nut twist connectors- listed right from box:

2/3 #10
2-5 #12
2-6 #14
4-6 #16
6 #18


heres what is listed on a package of smaller ones that are yellow instead of red:
2/3 #12
2-4 #14/16
2-6 #18
4 #20
1 #10 + 1 #18
2 #20 + 2 #22

will these yellow ones work better for two 12 guages conductors than the red ones in which are larger diameter threads and list 2-5 #12 ??

what do these mean exactly ??

i assume that everything before # sign is qantity of conductors ???

no ?

aanything after # are conductor guages right ??

i need to connect one #18 stranded to one #12 solid at all the ceiling light fixtures

i cannot find any box of any connectors that list this combination

not grey ones, not blue ones,

none


i am at a loss

am really pissed off now

all i wan to do is find out what nuts i need to connect #18 stranded to a #12 solid

thats it!

really proving to be impossible to find out

apparently no one installs ordinary ceiling light fixtures ?

at least no one here anyways
 

Last edited by fast68; 11-24-04 at 11:58 AM.
  #5  
Old 11-25-04, 08:56 AM
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here is first batch of numbers from the box with red wing nut twist connectors- listed right from box:

2/3 #10
2-5 #12
2-6 #14
4-6 #16
6 #18


heres what is listed on a package of smaller ones that are yellow instead of red:
2/3 #12
2-4 #14/16
2-6 #18
4 #20
1 #10 + 1 #18
2 #20 + 2 #22

will these yellow ones work better for two 12 guages conductors than the red ones in which are larger diameter threads and list 2-5 #12 ??
I would use the yellow, will make for a nice tight connection.


what do these mean exactly ??

i assume that everything before # sign is qantity of conductors ???

no ?

aanything after # are conductor guages right ??
Correct


i need to connect one #18 stranded to one #12 solid at all the ceiling light fixtures

i cannot find any box of any connectors that list this combination
The yellow one. It's odd that it doesn't list more, the ones I've bought do. But based on your list it has '1 #10 + 1 #18' so a #12 with an #18 should be fine.


they know that DIY's are going to perform electrical work in this country, it is extremely common occurance, they should make NEC codes book viewable for those who cannot in any way shape or form afford to hire anyone licensed to perform work for them, not in this world with high labor costs and fees and permits and so forth, its a big mess, ppl like me and alot of ppl on this forum asking questions like mine are stuck in the same way, want to do the work correctly and will follow the NEC, like i want to, but cannot find out very much information at all andjust kind of get a runaround and find out about half the info needed to do a job in this field correctly/safely
Well I can't speak for your area but I bought a 'Simplified Residental Electrical Code' book at HD for $11 for my area (Ontario). A plain yellow book, no pretty photos, just packed with all the numbers and rules for doing things to code (including stuff I would never touch like remote secondary panels and upgrading service). Look around and see if there's something like it in your area.
 
  #6  
Old 11-25-04, 10:00 AM
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From Fast68:

>>are wire nuts allowed(according to the NEC) to be used for connecting light >>fiixture wires to 12-2 solid copper NM ?

Yes. When you do this, let the end of small light-fixture wire stick out about 1/4" farther than the end of the #12. It will tighten up nicely if you do this.

>> is soldering allowed for light fixture connections ?

No

>>wire nuts come with light fixtures but they are horribly cheap and really >>small

True. I usually throw them away.

>>plus i dont even know if they are big enough for use with 12-2 conductors

They're usually big enough for one #12 and one of whatever size wire the fixture came with - but I still throw them away.

>>are wire nuts colors not in relation to size ?

The color of a wire nut relates to the number of wires of different size that they are rated to connect. Those ratings are listed on the box they come in.

what about connecting several NM 12-2 conductors ?

>>Yes, wire nuts.

>>i guess apparently when you use wire nuts you are not supposed to twist >>the connectors together

Correct - most modern wire nuts tell you not to twist the wires together in a statement on the box.

>>should i re-do the ones i did twist together and use wire nuts on then ?

Yes - and be sure you do them all. Connections that are only twisted together will fail. Sometimes they burn. You did put all of your connections in boxes, right?

>>i thought twisting AND using wire nuts would be way better than using just >>wire nuts alone

Years ago this was true, and some old-timers still insist on twisting all of the wires first. Modern wire nuts eliminated the need to do this, and in fact don't work as well on twisted wires.
 
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Old 11-25-04, 10:20 AM
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>>ok why do they make so many different ones ??

Partly because there are so many different combinations of wire to connect, and partly for marketing reasons. The more kinds there are, the more you have to buy. The newer lines of wire nuts are suitable for a broader range of connections than the old ones were. The Ideal "Twister" series (our new favorite) connects nearly every common combination with only two different colors of nut - tan and gray. Saves stocking costs.

>>they all have the same type of threads right ?

Different colors of nut in the same series have the same threads - actually springs in the better quality ones. Different manufacturers use different spring designs and brag that theirs is better.

>>i see that crimpable wire nuts are not shown or mentioned. are they not >>NEC ?

It's not the NEC that determines what style of nut to use - the NEC says only that the nut must be "Listed for the purpose". It's up to the manufacturer to decide is they want to make different sorts of nuts and go to the trouble to get them listed. In the case of crimp type wire nuts, there may be some listed ones, but why would anyone want them? Too slow, one more tool to carry. Twist-on nuts work just fine and have for 50 years.

>>wouldnt crimpable ones be better than solid ones ?

No.

>>and are we supposed to tape wire nut connections ?

No. If your wire nut connection needs tape to make is secure, you haven't done it right. If the nut is loose, re-tighten it. If there is copper showing below the nut, take it apart, trim the wires and do it again.

>>its sad that NEC books are not publicly viewable

They are. Your library probably has a copy, or you can buy them in 'most any bookstore. Better for you than the NEC however, would be a book on simplified home wiring - and there are several out there. The NEC is pretty tough to follow, even for those who have been in the trade for years.
 
  #8  
Old 11-25-04, 10:25 AM
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Cheyenps ;

>>i thought twisting AND using wire nuts would be way better than using just >>wire nuts alone

Years ago this was true, and some old-timers still insist on twisting all of the wires first. Modern wire nuts eliminated the need to do this, and in fact don't work as well on twisted wires.

I guess I'm an old timer (gee, thanks) I still do three clockwise twists and follow it up by a SUITABLE marrete. I don't understand the logic of how NOT twisting is better
 
  #9  
Old 11-25-04, 10:26 AM
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PS-

In answer to your main question, if you have Ideal "wing nuts" - a good quality nut by the way - use the Yellow one to hook up your porch lights. 1 # 12 and 1 # 18 works perfectly in this wire nut. So do 2 or 3 # 12 with 1 # 18.
 
  #10  
Old 11-26-04, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by nomind
Cheyenps ;

I guess I'm an old timer (gee, thanks) I still do three clockwise twists and follow it up by a SUITABLE marrete. I don't understand the logic of how NOT twisting is better
I go by what the manufacturer recommends - and to do otherwise is to make an installation contrary to the manufacturer's instructions. This is a code violation in my area, and given that the manufacturers test and have these things listed, I'm most comfortable doing what they say. I've never had a connection made with an Ideal Wing-nut fail, and I've been using that product for some 30 years without twisting the wires first. The "Twisters" seem to grip even more firmly.

I think though, that if you were trained to twist the wires first, you will never feel comfortable doing it any other way. I don't have a problem with that - we all want to do the best sort of work - but I would be sure that whatever wire nut I used (marrette?) was listed for use that way. The only one I am aware of that is would be the "Scotchlock", but I find them difficult to grip and I have seen a number of them fail, even with the wires twisted.
 
  #11  
Old 11-26-04, 10:44 PM
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NEC Books

As Shadowman says, NEC books are not uncommon -and should be relatively easy to find unless you live way up in the mountains 200 miles from a large city...
Try your local Borders or Barnes and Noble if you have em, mine have at least 8 different books on the NEC, (usually simplified or "NEC illustrated" type books) but you'll find all the important codes and procedures in them to do a job correctly. Home Depot should have something on the NFC as well. If you dont find a book that has the 2005 NEC don't fret, there's maybe one change the average homeowner needs to worry about, and thats AFCI for bedrooms. You dont even have to buy the book, just sit down and read it in the store. (dont spill anything on it) good luck
 
 

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