Need help wiring a bathroom exhaust fan/light/night-light combo

Reply

  #1  
Old 08-01-10, 02:18 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: US
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Need help wiring a bathroom exhaust fan/light/night-light combo

I am installing a Hunter model number 83003 exhaust fan/light/night-light combo.

There is no original wiring as I am turning a bedroom into a bathroom and gutted the entire room.

The fixture has one two pin connector consisting of one black wire and one white wire for the fan.

It has one 3 pin connector consisisting of one white wire, one black wire for the light, one red wire (night-light).

I ran 12-2nmb from the light switch box to the fixture and connected the black wire from the two pin connector(fan) with the black wire from the 12-2. I connected the white wires from the two pin connector, three pin connector, and the 12-2 together. I connected the bare copper from the 12-2 to the green wire screwed to the fixture box.

That leaves the black wire (light) and red wire (night -light) still to be wired. I removed a black and a white wire from the yellow sheathing of some 12-2 nmb and stored away the bare copper wire. I then ran the black wire from the switch box to the black wire in the fixture (light) and connected them together. I took the white wire and ran it from the switch box to the red wire in the fixture (night-light). I got a red permanant marker and colored the white wire red at the switch box.

All the wire was ran through a gray pvc conduit.


I bought a double switch and a single switch for the light switches so that the fan can run off the single switch and the two lights will run off the double switch.


I have 5 wires sticking out of the metal switch box.


I have to come in from a power source somewhere. I would prefer another circuit for the bathroom but not sure if I have enough wire for it. I may have to temporarily drop down from the attic tying into some old Knob and Tube.

For some reason or other I am a bit confused about hooking up the switches. I have never hooked up a double switch and I wanna make sure I get this right. There are two black screws on one side of the switch, two copper on the other with a green screw in between the two copper. The other switch just has the two copper on one side with the green.

I assume the black wire from the light would hook to one black screw on the double switch while the white wire painted red (night-light) would hook to the other black screw on the double switch. I assume I would need to run the power source to the single switch then run a black wire from it to the double switch. Beyond these assumptions I am clueless and these assumptions may be clueless as well. Why this double switch is throwing me is driving me crazy.

Any help finishing this would be greatly appreciated.

Before anyone asks why I used 12-2....

I am going to eventually wire my whole house with it. It is all I have on hand. I can't afford to go out and buy anything else right now and I want this bathroom light/fan/night-light working asap.

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
  #2  
Old 08-01-10, 03:23 PM
palmcoast's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 124
Received 2 Votes on 1 Post
I am a little confused by your long post but from what I am reading it appears you are wiring your switch wrong. From what it sounds you are wiring the switch leg through your neutral. I would suggest picking up a basic wiring book from your local home imp. store to clearify a few things.
 
  #3  
Old 08-01-10, 03:29 PM
palmcoast's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 124
Received 2 Votes on 1 Post
Also, since you don't want to buy a book just take a look at it but as far as not wanting to buy anymore material I think you are out of luck. The fan light combo should be on a seperate circuit so tying into existing wiring is out of the question. When you are making improvments you should be making things safer not more hazardous. You should also have permits to ensure you do the job right. It does not sound as if you do.
 
  #4  
Old 08-01-10, 03:49 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,582
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Suggest you check out a book such as Wiring Simplified from the library. Then when you have the money to do the job correctly you can do it.

Basically though assuming you want one switch for each device and power comes in at the switch you will need 4 wires plus ground to the fan combo. Three separate power wires, a neutral, and a ground. Since all wires must be in the same sheath and 4 conductor cable with ground isn't a common item I would suggest using THN or THWN in ENT (Smurf) tubing.

You can use 12-2 to run power to the switch box but if you use it for the fixture and want each device of the fixture on separate switches you would have to run three 12-2 cables to the fixture. That would be very crowed and hard to work with in the fixtures junction box. No, you can not strip the individual conductors out and run them in ENT.
 
  #5  
Old 08-01-10, 03:53 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,224
Received 105 Votes on 91 Posts
I use the Smurf tube method since the 4 conductor cable isn't easy to find. You just need to use a metal switchbox or a plastic ENT box to accept the connectors.
 
  #6  
Old 08-01-10, 04:43 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: US
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by palmcoast View Post
Also, since you don't want to buy a book just take a look at it but as far as not wanting to buy anymore material I think you are out of luck. The fan light combo should be on a seperate circuit so tying into existing wiring is out of the question. When you are making improvments you should be making things safer not more hazardous. You should also have permits to ensure you do the job right. It does not sound as if you do.
1) why should the fan light be on it's own circuit it? It is a light. If the fan pulls more than 20 amps then I really wouldn't want to pay the electric bill to run the thing. It isn't over the shower. It is center of the bathroom. What sorta hazard could it pose that it would call for it's own circuit by code?

The light is the only thing I am currently hooking up in the bathroom. No plug ins yet.(i realize the need for the separate circuit for plug in receptacles in a bathroom). I just need the light to work and work correctly with all three items...fan/light/night-light working separately from each other.

2) It isn't that I don't want to buy anything. I can't! No money no buy.

3) I don't need permits in my area to do work on my home.

I have basic wiring books and didn't get the answer to my question in them.

The "LONG" post was to paint a descriptive picture of what I have. The switches aren't hooked up. The wire is ran from the light/exhaust fan/night-light combo to the switch box on the wall. the wires are hanging out of the wall waiting for the switches to be installed. There are 5 wires exiting the fixture therefore there are 5 wires going to the switch box.

This house was built in the early 1900s. All knob and tube. I am replacing it as I am financially capable. I am not too concerned about the old knob and tube hazard. Far as I am concerned it is as safe or safer than what I am replacing it with.


I have all 5 wires enclosed in 1 inch electrical pvc tubing with two of them being outside their orginal yellow nm sheathing. The two outside yellow sheathing are not bare (one in its black sheathing and one in its white sheathing which I colored red)so why can't they be ran through the pvc like that? It is electrical rigid gray pvc. I really see no difference with that and the smurf...tube other than flexibility.

the 12-2 wires are already hooked to the fixtures. Yes it was crowed but it is in and done.

So I have the three hot, a neutral, and a ground. Thus the 5 wires hanging out of my switchbox.

How is it that how i have set it up is any different than what you just said ray? I don't see the difference.

My switchbox is metal.

The switch box is a dual box. There will be one regular switch and one combo switch (two switches on same receptacle)


I really just need to know how to hook up the switches. I know the fixture is hooked right because that is how Hunter shows to wire it.

I do appreciated the responses so far thanks and realize that folks can only respond to how they understand what I am saying. SO in that aspect...I am sorry for not being able to describe what I am talking about better.
 
  #7  
Old 08-01-10, 06:07 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,582
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
I have all 5 wires enclosed in 1 inch electrical pvc tubing with two of them being outside their orginal yellow nm sheathing. The two outside yellow sheathing are not bare (one in its black sheathing and one in its white sheathing which I colored red)so why can't they be ran through the pvc like that? It is electrical rigid gray pvc. I really see no difference with that and the smurf...tube other than flexibility.
The conduit is fine but NM cable should not be run in conduit except for short lengths where it is exposed and you can not strip the individual wires out of NM cable and use as individual conductors. They are not rated for that. If you wish to do this with NM cable you can do it but you should not use conduit and you can not strip out individual wires.

You are correct the fan may not need to be on a separate circuit but if it isn't you may not be able use the fan circuit for receptacles in the bath. Receptacles in a bathroom must be on a 20a dedicated circuit and can serve only other bathrooms. Lights and fans can be on the bathroom circuit but only if there are only bathroom fixtures.

If you wish to wire it with 12-2 NM-b cable just let us know and we will be glad to help but you can't use the conduit or stripped out wires. Just let us know if power comes in at the switch or fixture.

I know how the cash crunch is. I'm on SS and look at my spread sheet every time I buy food to determine if I can afford it. In this forum though you aren't going to get answers on how to do it in violation of code.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 08-01-10 at 07:03 PM.
  #8  
Old 08-01-10, 08:24 PM
J
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: US
Posts: 4
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks Ray...

I got frustrated and decided I would try my original thought before I read your post.

I took some 12-2 and ran it from the breaker box (20amp breaker) underneath my house and up through the wall into the bottom of the switch box.

The double switch had a tab on the one side where the black screws are and I assumed this tab jumps one screw to the other. so I ran the hot wire (black) to the bottom black screw. I connected another black wire to the top black screw and jumped it over to the single toggle switch. The other side of the switch I connected the painted red wire (night light) to one copper screw and to the other copper screw I connected the separated black wire (light). I twisted the two white wires together with wire connectors and shoved them inside the switch box. I twisted the bare copper wires together and shoved them inside the switchbox.

At the breaker box the black wire is in the 20 amp breaker. The white in the neutral bar where all the other white wires are. The bare is in the ground bar with the rest of the bare wires.

I flipped the breaker on and wala...I have the fan/light/and night light working on separate switches independently of each other.

no neutral nor ground going to the switches nor is the there a bare ground screwed to the metal switchbox.


Now as far as code...I don't get the difference in running the 12-2 nmb in the rigid vs the smurf conduit.

The only thing I can figure is that it is a heat issue and the rigid plastic would hold more heat in. still the yellow sheathing and paper holds a lot of heat in itself. If it burnt through the yellow sheathing without being in a conduit...it seems there would be a bigger fire risk. The thick 1 inch conduit I am using would be a mother to melt through. So I don't get that putting it through heavy thick conduit would be a code risk...especially since i was under the impression that i was being told that it was ok for the smurf tubing.

I could have just ran a full 12-2 with ground but it would have made it more difficult to pull through the 1 inch tub. and hey copper is expensive so I can now melt down the bare ground.


So the light/fan/night-light is on it's own circuit right now...but i am going to add the bedroom to that particular circuit. I will keep the gfci receptacles for the bathroom on their own circuit of which there may only be one or two and may add the gfci for the washing machine to it since it is right there beside the bathroom if this is acceptable.

I'm on SSI here too. It is difficult. I may loose the house anyway the way it is looking.

Thanks again Ray and any further advice on what I have done or shouldn't have done would be most appreciated. But at least it is working now and i can go to the bathroom without have to feel around in the dark for things.
 
  #9  
Old 08-01-10, 10:09 PM
E
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 461
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by joderi View Post
no neutral nor ground going to the switches nor is the there a bare ground screwed to the metal switchbox.
this has me confused. are you saying you didnt ground the switches or the metal box. This is against code. the box and switches should be grounded.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: