BBQ Table Lighting

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Old 05-05-11, 09:57 PM
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BBQ Table Lighting

Background on the project - This is a table that sits next to the bbq that you put food, rest a beer on, ect.

What I have going is a PVC light bar that I am wanting to run the 12-2 outdoor wire though, and connect 2-3 lights on the top of the bar. On one end is where a extension cord would plug into it, then the other maybe have a female plug?

The lights are 75watts each, and I was told to just run a heavy duty cord out to the table. All the wiring is going to be inside either 1in or 1/2 inch pvc, the switch for the table is going to be in a waterproof box mounted under the table, but sticking out a little bit.

So, what I know is that I need the male plug attached to the cord (which would also be in a box), Then heres what I dont know.

I dont know where I need the switch mounted, or how to wire the lights into a single wire "properly"

Thanks for the help in advance
 
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Old 05-06-11, 09:58 AM
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What I have going is a PVC light bar that I am wanting to run the 12-2 outdoor wire though, and connect 2-3 lights on the top of the bar.
Explain that in more detail. What is a PVC light bar? Do you mean THWN individual wires?

I was told to just run a heavy duty cord out to the table. All the wiring is going to be inside either 1in or 1/2 inch pvc, the switch for the table is going to be in a waterproof box mounted under the table, but sticking out a little bit.
Extension cords are for temporary use. They are not for use as primary wiring in conduit. It would be better to place a permanently wired GFCI protected receptacle near the table with an in use cover. A short SOWJ cord set could plug into the receptacle.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Explain that in more detail. What is a PVC light bar? Do you mean THWN individual wires?

Extension cords are for temporary use. They are not for use as primary wiring in conduit. It would be better to place a permanently wired GFCI protected receptacle near the table with an in use cover. A short SOWJ cord set could plug into the receptacle.
Alright, the pvc lightbar is just 1in Pvc pipes that come up from behind the table, with 2 90degree angles making it a half square. On one side the bar attaches and goes through 2x4 (switching to 1/2 in pvc) and then has a 90 and goes straight down under the table, then another 90 that attaches to a 34in 1/2 inch that goes to where im going to have a box where power from the house would be pluged into the table. (which is where the heavy duty extension cord would come into play). This is a movible table that cant be hardwired in or anything, It still has to be mobile, and be able to be plugged into any house hold plug via extension cord.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 01:22 PM
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I'm going to draw up the light bar, and the pvc pipes that I have on it already to give a diagram of what I'm trying to explain.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 02:10 PM
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Hope this puts a better picture of what I'm trying to explain. I want to run 12/2 UF-B Wire (purchased) From a male plug at one end of the table, and then either just end the wire and cap it off, or have a female end/outlet on the other side of the table.

This is something I dont really want to "guess" how to wire. So the information that I am searching for is:
1)Where do i mount the switch on the wire
2)how do I splice the 12/2 wire to attach the lights
3)can I put a outlet, or just a single female outlet at the end

If theres anything else that might be helpful that you think I might be lacking information on, I'm all ears.

EDIT: I also wanna try and do this with a single wire running through the 1" pipes, and hopfully a single wire through most of the 1/2"


Direct link for a little bigger image: http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1...lelightbar.jpg

Thank you.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 05:13 PM
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4 things to consider::

You must use conduit not pipe.

Half inch PVC conduit would sag. Best would be threaded rigid metal conduit. EMT might work.

You can't use "T"s for the lights. There must be junction boxes.

Best practice to use individual THWN wires for the light bar not cable.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 05:17 PM
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Well, I already paid 25 bucks for the wire. And this is "pvc conduit" pipes, I cant use metal on this design, for one it would be too hard to work with. The 1/2 goes on the bottom, and would be held up with brackets.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 05:23 PM
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If it is long enough maybe you can use the cable you bought for the receptacle you need at the table.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
If it is long enough maybe you can use the cable you bought for the receptacle you need at the table.
This is a mobile unit, (like you take to bbq's and such). For me to put a receptacle where it would be used at home wouldnt be used that often, which is why I'd like to have a male end at the table where I can just plug in the extension cord into it, which would run my lights, and a outlet under the table.

Talked to my moms boyfriend about it and came up with this:

Extension cord plugs in - 12-2 wire goes and splits off to the outlet - other end of the split moves forward and is split with a T to the switch - comes back to the T, then goes up into the light bar. 1st light is spliced in, then goes to the other light which is then capped off ending the 12-2

Would this work? (sorry if I didnt give enough information, just ask if I didnt)

Thanks
 
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Old 05-06-11, 07:14 PM
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It would probably work. By "T" I assume you mean a conduit body. While I would use junction boxes instead of "T" it is code compliant if the volume is marked on the conduit body and not exceeded.

Reference:
NEC 314.16 314.16 Number of Conductors in Outlet, Device, and
Junction Boxes, and Conduit Bodies. Boxes and conduit
bodies shall be of sufficient size to provide free space for
all enclosed conductors. In no case shall the volume of the
box, as calculated in 314.16(A), be less than the fill calculation
as calculated in 314.16(B). The minimum volume for
conduit bodies shall be as calculated in 314.16(C). (C) Conduit Bodies.
(1) General. Conduit bodies enclosing 6 AWG conductors
or smaller, other than short-radius conduit bodies as described
in 314.5, shall have a cross-sectional area not less
than twice the cross-sectional area of the largest conduit or
tubing to which they can be attached. The maximum number
of conductors permitted shall be the maximum number
permitted by Table 1 of Chapter 9 for the conduit or tubing
to which it is attached.
(2) With Splices, Taps, or Devices. Only those conduit
bodies that are durably and legibly marked by the manufacturer
with their volume shall be permitted to contain
splices, taps, or devices. The maximum number of conductors
shall be calculated in accordance with 314.16(B). Conduit
bodies shall be supported in a rigid and secure manner.
314.17 Conductors Entering Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or
Fittings. Conductors entering boxes, conduit bodies, or fittings shall be protected from abrasion and shall comply
with 314.17(A) through (D).
(A) Openings to Be Closed. Openings through which conductors
enter shall be adequately closed.

(C) Nonmetallic Boxes and Conduit Bodies. Nonmetallic
boxes and conduit bodies shall be suitable for the lowest
temperature-rated conductor entering the box. Where nonmetallic
boxes and conduit bodies are used with messengersupported
wiring, open wiring on insulators, or concealed
knob-and-tube wiring, the conductors shall enter the box
through individual holes. Where flexible tubing is used to
enclose the conductors, the tubing shall extend from the last
insulating support to not less than 6 mm (1⁄4 in.) inside the
box and beyond any cable clamp. Where nonmetallicsheathed
cable or multiconductor Type UF cable is used,
the sheath shall extend not less than 6 mm (1⁄4 in.) inside
the box and beyond any cable clamp. In all instances, all
permitted wiring methods shall be secured to the boxes
 
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Old 05-06-11, 07:32 PM
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Link: http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1...elightbar2.jpg


Link: http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6...ingdiagram.png
So with this picture in mind. I want to have the power plug in-go to the outlet-switch-then up to the 2 lights ending at the far light.

The upper Image shows where I need to run the 12-2 wire, I dont know how to get it to run off to the outlet (on the table) or to make the switch work. I'm just getting myself all mixed up doing this.
 

Last edited by Jackale; 05-06-11 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 05-06-11, 08:34 PM
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ImageShack Album - 12 images

This is an album that has pictures that I just uploaded that shows the table, lights, where the pvc tube is, and the switch.


I've yet to buy the Outlet box.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 09:09 PM
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The pictures show PVC pipe not PVC conduit. The "T"s and ELs are plumbing fittings not conduit fittings. The white color is a dead givaway. PVC conduit is gray. The inside of plumbing pipes is rough and can snag and tear insulation. Connections must remain accesable. That is not possible with plumbing fittings.

If it works ok but it is not even close to being code acceptable.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 09:41 PM
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Well, I'll just use these as a mockup then.


Back to my wiring question. I have a male end. From there I'd like the wiring to go through the pipes, giving power to a outlet, then 4 inches away (up the tube) I want it to go to the switch that is going to turn the lights on and off.

I know how to run the wire through the pipes and into the lightbar for the lights, but I dont know how to install the switch, since it is going to be about 3-4 feet away in the pvc.

Also to make this accessible, Certain parts come apart to expose wires (if I were to continue using the plumper pvc
 
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Old 05-06-11, 10:24 PM
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I would suggest you start with a double gang exterior box. You can both a switch and receptacle in it. From that box you can also tie in the SOWJ cordset that will plug into the extension cord.

On one set of the duplex receptacles screws you would fasten the cord set.

You would fasten the white of your light cable to the remaining silver screw of the receptacle.

You would run a pigtail from the remaining brass screw of the receptacle to one side of the switch.

You would run the black of the light cable to the remaining switch screw.

Here is the type of Tee you need:
 
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Old 05-06-11, 10:46 PM
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First of all, thank you sooo much for your help and information!

I would suggest you start with a double gang exterior box. You can both a switch and receptacle in it. From that box you can also tie in the SOWJ cordset that will plug into the extension cord
.
This is something that cant be done on this project due to the switch and outlet needing to be on the back and front

On one set of the duplex receptacles screws you would fasten the cord set.

You would fasten the white of your light cable to the remaining silver screw of the receptacle.

You would run a pigtail from the remaining brass screw of the receptacle to one side of the switch.

You would run the black of the light cable to the remaining switch screw.
So with separate boxes- (trying to picture this)
Starting from the plug, the wire feeds into the tube, then into the receptacle. I connect my black, white, and copper wire to the receptacle (I was thinking, could I just Cut a section of the wire, then tie it back in at the main tube? With the box you showed me)
From the T where the wires went to the receptacle I would go about 4 inches up, T it off again and run the wires to the switch.
Which would be the black hot wire to one brass screw, then the ground. Then on the other screw would be the black wire from the lights. The white wire would stay solid and connect to both lights, the ground wire, same as the black would be divided and ran up to the lights as well.

Am I getting this or should I go back to preschool? Cause I think I'm at that level right now
 
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Old 05-06-11, 11:10 PM
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Okay, the outlet one is kinda simple, (well for what I think.) I run my plug in, Cut the wire at the T, run a wire to the outlet. And connect all the wires BBB, WWW, CCC at the T? Which is kinda like I explained it above. Works in my head.
 
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Old 05-06-11, 11:45 PM
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Okay, Gotta love my art work by now, haha.
Key to pictures:
Black=Black wire
White=White wire
Gold/yellow color=Copper wire+Green wire(lights)
Blue=Where caps would be

This first picture is come from the plug on the Right side of the picture, then going to the outlet, then moving on.


This next one is the wires going to the switch. Going right to left, the Right side just came from where the outlet and the plug are located.
The black wire on the right is going to the switch, then the black wire on the left is coming from the other screw on the switch. [not sure how I am hooking the ground up yet for this] White is going straight to the first light.


Moving on from the left of the other picture is where the wires hit a 90, and go up about a foot, hit another 90, then switch from 1/2 in tubing to 1 inch tubing with a 90.

This is the wiring of the first light:


Then this is the wiring of the 2nd light:


The new images have also been added to the album, but I'm pretty sure they are big enough haha
 

Last edited by Jackale; 05-07-11 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 05-07-11, 10:14 AM
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And here is my crude drawing.

 
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Old 05-07-11, 11:15 AM
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Thank you. I think I might be able to get this figured out and wired in a couple hours haha
 
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Old 05-07-11, 01:12 PM
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Now, can i make a "T" in the wiring, as in, power comes from the plug, I have a 1 foot wire coming from my outlet into the T, can I just splice the 3 wires together?
 
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Old 05-07-11, 01:21 PM
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If I understand you, yes. You can splice extra wire to the cord set to extend it to the first device as long as the splices remain accesable in an approved enclosure such as a conduit body Tee.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 01:31 PM
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So in this picture, This is what I am wanting to do. The right of the picture is coming from the plug. The left is going towards the lights.

So the drop down is for the outlet. And what I want to do is just connect BBB WWW CCC at the conduit body T (just picked up the ones required for that)
 
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Old 05-07-11, 02:34 PM
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Also, can I have a bare ground wire running into my switch? or should I go and purchase a ground wire to run to the switch and back?
 
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Old 05-07-11, 02:39 PM
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Ground may be bare or green. Your connections look OK.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 03:53 PM
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Project got put on hold. Need to put another section of 2x4 on the bottom, otherwise everything wont fit tucked up. And if I wanted to get to my outlet, I would have to cut everything off to open it. Bad design flaw! More painting and sanding I guess.

And my previous question, I have to run the ground to the switch and 2 black wires. I want to just run the 2 blacks (without the gray coating and tie them In at the T. The ground wire would then have no coating, or a sleeve on it. Would I still be able to run that a long side the black wire with its black sleeve? or would I need to get a sleeved ground wire also?


An idea that I came up with just now was to cut the white wire out and just use the ground and black wires in the cord. I need to keep the wires that run in to a minimum because its only 1/2 tube, and I cant put 2 "whole" (as in white, ground, black) wires into 1 tube.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 04:22 PM
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A heavy 12AWG cord would be a goodidea if you plan on plugging crock pots into it and a gfci would be helpful as alot of places in my area do not have gfi protection, and I assume there are still places without it all over the country.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 04:50 PM
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I just had that Idea about 10 minutes ago before reading your post Justin. The only thing that is going to be pluged into the outlet is a AC to DC converter that is going to be hooked up to a marine stereo system on the table. But I need to figure out a way to make the converter water tight. But thats not a problem right now at all.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 04:58 PM
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I want to just run the 2 blacks (without the gray coating and tie them In at the T. The ground wire would then have no coating, or a sleeve on it. Would I still be able to run that a long side the black wire with its black sleeve?
Yes.

An idea that I came up with just now was to cut the white wire out and just use the ground and black wires in the cord.
You need both black and white. They must be in the same conduit.

I've tried to steer you in the correct direction but you keep trying to make it more difficult.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 06:33 PM
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Well from what I've read so far, all I need for the switch is the ground, and 2 black wires, so the black wire from the plug, and the black wire going to the 2 lights.

And the white wire would just run straight to the lights

So at the "t" I would have my 1 black wire and the ground go to the switch, then I would have my 1 black wire coming back from the switch and meeting up with the 12/2 which would run to the lights.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post

I've tried to steer you in the correct direction but you keep trying to make it more difficult.
I'm sorry, its a learning thing. If I were to have someone "show" me how to do it, I would pick everything up 100% faster. I pretty much have to see something to learn it, Sorry.

But your help is GREATLY appreciated!
 
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Old 05-07-11, 07:06 PM
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How are you going to mount the switch and receptacle? For that you will need junction boxes.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 07:58 PM
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Oh, I was just going to leave them dangling there.



I have the pvc conduit boxes for the switch and the outlet. I'm going to post a 100% full wiring diagram, In 2 pictures of how I'm going to run each wire. If I'm wrong on anything correct me. This is something that I wouldnt usually do as a project, but its been really nice learning about all this stuff. I only had the basic "this is how you replace a switch."

Thank you so much for the help.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 08:31 PM
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Now that you have it figured out let me just show you how I would do it. I am NOT suggesting you do it this way. Your way is fine.

 
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Old 05-07-11, 09:15 PM
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Thats a pretty good design for it yes. But the outlet box is not going to be used for anything other than the AC to DC converter, I'm almost done with my wiring diagram. I Might also go buy the pvc light boxes because I dont think I'll have enough room for the connections in the tube. It would also make it "some what" code acceptable.

Also if I would have known I was going to put power to this project, I would have designed it A LOT differently then this.
 
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Old 05-07-11, 10:03 PM
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Okay, so first picture is of the light bar, this would be looking at it from the rear, dead on:

Link: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/374...ingdiagram.png

Next picture is what the wiring is going to look like under the base of the table:

Link: http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/465...ingdiagram.png

The final thing is to figure out how to run the wires to the switch, what I'm thinking is just take the black wire and the ground out of the 12/2 (cutting the whole wire and just cutting the length out of the white to match up with the black and ground) Leaving say side A and side B. (side A would be coming from the plug, side B would be going to the lights) Then running the black wire to the switch from side A, and running side B the same way, just on the other screw.

I just dont know how to protect the 2 ground wires that go to the switch. :S
 
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Old 05-08-11, 08:33 AM
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The cord needs to enter through an approved strain relief device, and the receptacle needs to be listed weather-resistant and should probably have a flip cover as well as the switch, in case it gets left out in the rain.
 
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Old 05-09-11, 08:48 AM
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Got everything hooked in last night, besides gfi outlet wont work (its an older one from my friends remodel, so i think it might be broke), keeps tripping, but I went back in, looked everything over, theres no wires touching anywhere, did tests to make sure wih a battery powered tester, couldnt find anything wrong. So I'll get that figured out today, But the lights work!

Thank you Ray for the help, and Justin also, and sorry I was such a pain haha ^.^
 
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Old 05-09-11, 09:01 AM
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Excellent. Let us know how a new GFCI works.
 
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Old 05-09-11, 09:41 AM
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Went back to see how I wired the GFCI. Found my issuse. Had my hot lead on the load side, neutral on the line. So I put my hot wire back down on the line side. Works like a charm. Figures as much I tried to wire it "just" like I had it on the other plug in.

Works like a charm now. GFCI works, trips when tested, just wish my lights were hooked up to it as well.

Now goes the task of water proofing my ac to dc converter box that has to be mounted underneath. But it also has to be able to vent out and cool off. No idea what I'm going to do with it yet. Thinking maybe metal plate a PVC conduit box that would be able to fit it, and running tubes out of the box that can be pluged when its not in use.
 
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