Install Ceiling Fan/Light with no existing fixture

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Old 12-01-11, 06:26 PM
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Install Ceiling Fan/Light with no existing fixture

I would like to install a ceiling fan/light combo in my bedroom that currently has no ceiling light fixture, and need some help with the wiring.

The current state is one wall switch that operates the top plug of two outlets.

In the future state, I would like a double wall switch of which one switch operates the fan and the other switch operates the light, and I'd like the outlets to be in an "always on" state. I no longer want the outlets to be operated by the switch, if possible.

Currently the wiring looks like this:
At the wall switch: one set of wires (white/black/ground). White connected to top screw of switch. Black to bottom screw.

At the outlet closest to the switch:
There are three wires:
wire X: black/white/ground
wire Y: black/white/ground
wire Z: black/red/white/ground
In this outlet, Xw is connected to top silver screw of the outlet.
Xb, Yw, Zb are bundled together and pigtailed to the bottom brass screw of outlet.
Yb, Zr are bundled together and pigtailed to top brass screw.
Zw is connected to bottom silver screw.
The tab is broken on the brass side of the outlet.

I am comfortable with the ceiling fan installation and plan to run a wire from the fan/light down to the wall switch location.
 
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Old 12-01-11, 06:35 PM
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Deleted. Misread the post
 

Last edited by ray2047; 12-01-11 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 12-01-11, 06:44 PM
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Ray, I'm far from an expert. I don't understand what you mean by "replacing the two conductor switch loop cable between receptacle and switch with a 3-conductor cable".
How does one do this?
I was hoping I could re-arrange the wires in the outlet, and use the existing wires in the switch as a power source for the fan/light.
 
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Old 12-01-11, 08:09 PM
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I misread your post. Just reread it. I thought you wanted the receptacle to continue to be switched. Sorry for the confusion. I'll be back later with how to do it.
 
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Old 12-01-11, 08:48 PM
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At the outlet closest to the switch:
There are three wires:
wire X: black/white/ground
wire Y: black/white/ground
wire Z: black/red/white/ground
In this outlet, Xw is connected to top silver screw of the outlet.
Xb, Yw, Zb are bundled together and pigtailed to the bottom brass screw of outlet.
Yb, Zr are bundled together and pigtailed to top brass screw.
Zw is connected to bottom silver screw.
The tab is broken on the brass side of the outlet.
Those are cables containing wires. Cable Y goes to the switch.

Replace the receptacle with a new receptacle and leave the tab in place.

Disconnect Yw from Xb andZb
Connect all whites together and pigtail to a silver screw of the receptacle.

Connect all the black wires together and pigtail to a brass screw on the receptacle.

Put a wire nut on the red wire.

Connect all the grounds and pigtail to the receptacle and if metal box to the box.

At the switch remove the switch and box. Run a 3-condutor cable (black, red, white) to the fan rated box for the fan. The hole where you removed the switch box makes fishing easy. You can either go back with a single or double gang old work box. Connections below assumes double gang box.

Pigtail the black of the two conductor cable from the receptacle to both switches.

Red of the 3-conductor cable goes to the remaining screw of one switch.

Black of the 3-conductor cable goes to the renaming screw of the other switch.

Whites are wire nutted together.

Connect all the grounds and pigtail to the receptacle and if metal box to the box.

At the fan white to white. Black to black. Red to blue.

Connect all the grounds and pigtail to the receptacle and if metal box to the box.

If after this is done if any receptacles are dead it may have been supplied by the red wire at the receptacle. You will need to open the receptacle and use the black instead of the red.

To keep it simple I have omitted variations on the way to do the above.
 
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Old 12-02-11, 10:39 AM
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Ray, this sounds like what I'm looking for. I'll give it a try this weekend and respond back.

Thanks so much for giving the original post a second read, I really appreciate it!
 
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Old 12-04-11, 05:39 PM
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I need some additional help. I completed the project but with some changes. My fan came with a remote, which leave's no connection for the 3rd wire in the cable to the fan (I still used 14-3, but just placed a wire nut over the red cable in the attic). Essentially I just kept it to one switch which controls power to both fan and light.

I completed the re-wiring of the outlet as you described.

At the switch, I also placed a wire nut over the red wire of the cable running to the switch from the fan. I wire-nutted the whites together, and connected the black from the 2 conductor cable to one screw on the switch and the black from the fan cable to the other screw. I wire nutted all grounds together and connected to the ground screw on the switch.

After I turned the power back on, I tried to turn on the fan, but no luck. I turn the switch on and off and pulled the chains on the fan, but it's not working. Back at the outlet, the re-wiring was successful in converting the outlet to an always on state. At the other outlet in the room I didn't change any wiring and now only one of the plugs is working (the one previously controlled by the switch is powerless).

Any ideas for why the fan/light is not working? Is it okay to use 3 conductor cable and just leave the red unattached (wire-nutted at both the fan and the switch so that it's not connected to anything?
 
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Old 12-04-11, 05:49 PM
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My fan came with a remote, which leave's no connection for the 3rd wire in the cable to the fan (I still used 14-3, but just placed a wire nut over the red cable in the attic).
I don't understand. What red cable? Do you mean "red wire"? The red wire should have been capped inside the ceiling box and inside the switch box.

At the other outlet in the room I didn't change any wiring and now only one of the plugs is working (the one previously controlled by the switch is powerless).
Switch out the receptacle and use only the black and white on the receptacle. Cap the red. Do not break the brass tab on the new receptacle.

Any ideas for why the fan/light is not working?
Have you checked that you have 120v across the black and white of cable Y at the switch box?
 
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Old 12-04-11, 06:34 PM
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"I don't understand. What red cable? Do you mean "red wire"? The red wire should have been capped inside the ceiling box and inside the switch box." - Yes, meant the red wire. I did cap it at the ceiling box and inside the switch box.


" Switch out the receptacle and use only the black and white on the receptacle. Cap the red. Do not break the brass tab on the new receptacle." - This is what I did. Capped the red, only used black and white on the receptacle.

"Have you checked that you have 120v across the black and white of cable Y at the switch box?" - No, I will check and let you know what I find.
 
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Old 12-04-11, 07:11 PM
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Ray,

I had to replace battery in my multi-tester, but then it read about 121 volts across the black and white at the switch location for cable Y.
 
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Old 12-04-11, 07:33 PM
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Connect cable Y directly to the black and white of the 3-conductor cable going to the fan. Does the fan work? Have you changed the batteries in the remote. Is the receiver and remote set to the same code?

This is what I did [replaced receptacle]. Capped the red, only used black and white on the receptacle.
Do both plug-ins now work?
 
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Old 12-04-11, 07:59 PM
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Connect cable Y directly to the black and white of the 3-conductor cable going to the fan. Does the fan work?
No, I directly connected cable Y to the black and white of the 3-conductor going to fan and nothing's happening. No light or fan.

Have you changed the batteries in the remote. Is the receiver and remote set to the same code?
Yes. New batteries, verified the code is same on remote and receiver.

Do you think it's possibly a problem with the receiver? Should I try to by-pass it?
 
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Old 12-04-11, 08:27 PM
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Boom! I bypassed the remote receiver and it works. Fan and light both working fine. Switch operating fine.

So I have a bad receiver. I'll figure that one out. Thank's Ray!
 
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Old 12-04-11, 10:15 PM
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I hate remotes. Glad you isolated the problem.
 
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