One of 4 recessed lights won't turn on


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Old 05-23-13, 04:23 PM
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One of 4 recessed lights won't turn on

Here's the whole scenario:

Bought the house 3 years ago. The lights were already installed when we moved in. 3 years later, one of the 4 lights starts turning on "slower" than the others...meaning 3 would turn on and the 4th would take several seconds before deciding to turn on.

Now...the bulb won't turn on AT ALL.

I've swapped bulbs with working ones and it is not a bulb issue. So, I read up on it and hear about thermal protection...but if that was the problem, why would it never turn on? Wouldn't it flicker or turn off after x amount of time?

Go over to my brother's house and I borrow one of those things that detects power. Come back home, it detects power in the lines. So I figure maybe there is something wrong with the connector. They are MR16 bulbs.

Now, how does this make sense:

Take a trip to Home Depot, buy a new MR16 connector, IT DETECTS POWER, but the bulb still refuses to turn on?

HELP!
 
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Old 05-23-13, 04:45 PM
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What you should be using is a volt ohm meter not a non contact tester.
Try cutting off the breaker to that circut and pull the tab down a small amount that's inside where the bulb screws in. Also clean it with a pencil eraser.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 04:45 PM
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It sounds like that fixture may have lost its connection to neutral. Turn the power off at the breaker and take it apart until you can work with the connections.

If it's the last fixture in the set Only one cable feeding in), the problem may be at the last working fixture. Check there if you have no luck at the one that's quit working. See Troubleshooting a dead receptacle or light....

Go over to my brother's house and I borrow one of those things that detects power. Come back home, it detects power in the lines.
If you're talking about a Non-Contact Voltage Tester, it can only signal the presence of ungrounded potential and is of no use for troubleshooting an electrical system. Pick up an analog multimeter to use for doing this.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 04:49 PM
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A lot of MR16s don't screw in. They may have a bayonet, turn-and-lock or 2-pin base.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 04:56 PM
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I can take the can out but there's not much room to get at what's in the ceiling although it does seem like there are two connections coming into, not one.'
 
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Old 05-23-13, 05:08 PM
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I can take the can out but there's not much room to get at what's in the ceiling
That's OK, there usually isn't. There's enough, though, or the fixture couldn't have been installed.

it does seem like there are two connections coming into, not one.
Do you mean two cables? If so, the problem is likely at that fixture.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 05:28 PM
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Yup that's what I meant

What do you suggest as a next. Step? I'd love to take the whole assembly out. But not sure what's securing it in the ceiling.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 05:41 PM
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Check the wire splices. Only take as much apart as you need to do that.

Eo you have a multimeter now?
 
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Old 05-23-13, 05:55 PM
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No multimeter

i will see if I can see the splices.

When I stick my hand up there I can feel the two wires running into the metal box and what is happening inside of it who knows.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 06:03 PM
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Also the "thing" I borrowed is a GREENLEE GT-11 Voltage Detector
 
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Old 05-23-13, 06:18 PM
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well..unless I figure out how exactly this thing is secured in the ceiling I don't think I'll get anywhere. I can't see any of the wires or splices because they run into the metal box. Then from the other end the wires come out and down into the can.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 06:24 PM
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I borrowed is a GREENLEE GT-11 Voltage Detector
Greenlee is a good but the basic method by which non contact testers work is flawed. They detect the presence of electromagnetic waves not voltage. What they detect may or may not be meaningful voltage and current. A flip of the coin which it is. A $8-$15 analog multimeter will give you reliable readings. Digital multimeters may seem cool and easy to use but the cheap ones have too high an impedance to reliably reject induced voltages.

Terminology is important to avoid confusion. A wire is a single conductor. A cable is two or more wires in a metallic or nonmetallic sheath. I suspect in some cases what you are calling wires are cables.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 06:36 PM
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Yes, cables.

Two cables go into something which I cannot see but feels like could be potentially pulled out from the metal box.

I'm feeling around up there and can't figure it out.
 
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Old 05-23-13, 06:52 PM
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Old 05-23-13, 09:25 PM
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Your second photo shows the cover plate of the junction box for that fixture. It is held onto the box by two spring clips. We can see one of them on the right. The other one is opposite it, obscured in the picture by the flexible metal conduit going to the light fixture housing.

With the power turned off at the breaker, push the two spring clips gently apart and remove the cover. There are three splices inside - one each for the hot, neutral and ground wires.Check to see if any wire is loose in either the hot or the neutral splice.
 
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Old 05-24-13, 06:55 AM
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I guess a picture really is worth 1000 words (when you know what you're looking at).

Thanks, will try that when I get home. If nothing is wrong in there I'll go get myself a multimeter.
 
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Old 05-24-13, 02:36 PM
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Alright...got it open and found this one wire disconnect...but where is it supposed to go?

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...psc20cc55c.jpg
 
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Old 05-24-13, 03:09 PM
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It should go with another white wire but not with the white wire that seems to have a red with it. Are there any other white wires in the box?

<img src="https://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i381/shlammed/IMG-20130524-00030_zpsc20cc55c.jpg" width="1024" height="768"/>
 
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Old 05-24-13, 03:28 PM
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There is a similar black wire skinny like this white wire going into the orange thing with two thicker black wires

There are two thicker off-white wires going into an orange thing...maybe this skinny white wire goes with them.

Also, a little freaked out because it looks like the tips of the skinny exposed white wire are burnt
 
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Old 05-24-13, 03:42 PM
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woohooo!!!

stuck it in there with those two wires and the light turned on!

Going to jam it in there as good as i can and wrap some electric tape around it to make sure it doesn't come apart again
 
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Old 05-24-13, 04:09 PM
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Good work!

a little freaked out because it looks like the tips of the skinny exposed white wire are burnt
That was probably just because you had a poor connection. I wouldn't worry. Check if those are what I call "fake" wire nuts. A real wire nut IMHO should have a spring inside. I have seen many light fixtures come with wire nuts that have no spring inside. With a good wire nut you should not need tape.
 
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Old 05-24-13, 04:36 PM
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It's not a wire nut. It's a push-in connector.

That skinny white wire is the neutral for the fixture. The two thicker white wires are the house neutral coming in and going out.

You should not use electrical tape with that connector.

There is probably more than one open space available in the connector. Try different ones until you find one that really holds the wire.

If the bare end of the wire looks a little beat up. you should trim it off and strip the insulation off a fresh section. Do you know how to do that?

Oh. Congratulations!
 
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Old 05-24-13, 05:34 PM
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And now I see the push-ins so ignore my wire nut comment. Thanks Nash.
 
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Old 05-24-13, 06:04 PM
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No spring.

It basically has 3 holes for 3 wires. Shove them in hard enough and it seems to stick. Tugged on it pretty good and wires weren't moving. Taped it just to be sure.
 
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Old 05-24-13, 06:08 PM
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Yeah I stripped it back a bit.

There's no negative about using the electric tape though right? Sure as heck don't feel like taking that all down again lol.

Thanks for the help.
 
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Old 05-24-13, 07:06 PM
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No, no negative with tape. My spring comment applied to wire nuts not the type connector you have.
 
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Old 05-24-13, 08:59 PM
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Yeah I stripped it back a bit... Tugged on it pretty good and wires weren't moving.
Excellent. Tugging on it is the test for any connection.

To answer your question, the negatives with tape include the gummy mess it makes, the way it can hide a problem, the fact that the cheap stuff will either turn brittle or melt over time, the PITA it is to get apart later, the fact that most of it doesn't insulate well enough to stop an arc...

The positives of using tape inside a J-box, or on a push-in connector, include...

We use a lot of tape at work. Some of it is used to phase-mark conductors. Some is used to wrap devices (seems to have become a fad). Some - the specialty stuff - is used on connections that actually have to be taped, like split bolts. But the bulk of it, the black Mylar we buy by the case, is mostly used for things like making up heads for pulls. IOW, for work where the tape will be cut off and thrown away before the conductors are made up. When they're made up, no tape.

But hey, it's your house. Leave it there if you want to.
 
 

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