Ceiling Fan w/Light Hook-Up

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-28-13, 10:29 AM
7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ceiling Fan w/Light Hook-Up

My question is how to hook up wires at each location for the following situation:
Ceiling fan with light in bedroom.
Want control of light from two separate locations and control of fan from same two separate locations.
Wires in boxes at each location installed by electrician but not hooked up.

Box #1: contains 3 cables coming in from top and 1 from bottom and two switches.
2 - Top cables have B/W wires.
1 - Top cable has B/W/R wires.
1 - Bottom cable has B/W wire.

1 - 2 way switch.
1 - 3 way switch.

Box #2: contains 2 cables one from top, one from bottom and two switches.
1 - Top cable has B/W/R wires.
1 Bottom cable has B/W/R wires.

1-2 way switch.
1 3 way switch.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-28-13, 11:31 AM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Welcome to the forums!

2 way switch.
"2-way switch" is a term used in the UK for what we call a 3-way switch. Do you mean a SPST switch? Also, "top" and "bottom" of an electrical box have no intrinsic meaning - that's just where the installer decided to bring them in.

You will need to determine the purpose or function of each cable and wire in order to help us advise you on the way everything needs to be connected.

What cables and wires do you have in the ceiling? Also, where does the power for the circuit come in to the system? Use a meter - preferably an analog multimeter, to test for 120V between the black and white pair in each cable to determine that.

Want control of light from two separate locations and control of fan from same two separate locations.
Since you only have one 3-conductor cable in one of the boxes, that probably can't be done with standard 3-way switching. We'll need to help you find some different controls to do that with. But it's doable. We just need to know first how the cables are run and what their purposes might be.
 
  #3  
Old 10-28-13, 11:37 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Want control of light from two separate locations and control of fan from same two separate locations.
I don't see any way to do it with the existing cables. Before We go further you need to answer these two questions.
  • Does power come in at one of the switches or at the fan box?
  • Are any of the inplace switches being used for other lights or receptacles.
1 - 2 way switch.
No such critter in the United States. I believe you mean a SPST switch (regular light switch). What is it connected to?

Does power come in at one of the switches or the fan?

Note where the cable come in is irrelevant. What you are calling a B/W cable is a 2-conductor cable and what you are calling a B/W/R cable is a 3-conductor cable.

Box #1: contains 3 cables coming in from top and 1 from bottom and two switches.
2 - Top cables have B/W wires.
1 - Top cable has B/W/R wires.
1 - Bottom cable has B/W wire.
This box will need at least one more 3-conductor cable to have separate three way switches for both fan and light.

Box #2: contains 2 cables one from top, one from bottom and two switches.
1 - Top cable has B/W/R wires.
1 Bottom cable has B/W/R wires.
Assuming the two 3-conductor cables go to box #1 it will need a 2-conductor power in cable or a 3-conductor switch loop cable depending on where power will come in.
 
  #4  
Old 10-28-13, 02:47 PM
7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
More information.
Box #1
#1. 1 - 2 wire cable - power
#2. 1 - 3 wire cable - to light/fan box
#3. 1 - 2 wire cable - to light/fan box
#4. 1 - 2 wire cable - to box #2, no red wire at this end.
1 - 1 SPST switch
1 - 1 3 way switch

Box #2
1 - 3 wire cable to light/fan box
1 - 3 wire cable to box #1, same cable as #4 above but has red wire.
1 - SPST switch
1 - 3 way switch

Fan/Light has three wires, black, white, black w/blue strip.

Again, want to control light from both locations and fan from both locations.
Hope this helps.
 
  #5  
Old 10-28-13, 03:21 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Basicly you wire it as two independent 3 way circuits. The omly difference is that instead of a 2-conductor cable from the switch box to the ceiling box you use a three conductor cable to the ceiling box. That would be the 3-conductor in box #2 that goes to the light. The red would go to the common of one 3-way switch and the black to the common of the other 3-way switch. The white of the 3-conductor to the fan would connect to the whites of the two 3-conductors from box #1.

Here is single three way. You would have two like this. Instead of the 2-conductor cable to the light you would have a 3-conductor to the fan and light.

 
  #6  
Old 10-28-13, 04:31 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Box #1
#1. 1 - 2 wire cable - power
#2. 1 - 3 wire cable - to light/fan box
#3. 1 - 2 wire cable - to light/fan box
#4. 1 - 2 wire cable - to box #2, no red wire at this end.

Box #1: contains 3 cables coming in from top and 1 from bottom and two switches.
2 - Top cables have B/W wires.
1 - Top cable has B/W/R wires.
1 - Bottom cable has B/W wire.
Box #2
1 - 3 wire cable to light/fan box
1 - 3 wire cable to box #1, same cable as #4 above but has red wire.

Box #2: contains 2 cables one from top, one from bottom and two switches.
1 - Top cable has B/W/R wires.
1 Bottom cable has B/W/R wires.
How did you test to determine where each cable goes? How did you determine, for example, that cable #4 in Box #1 and cable #2 in Box #2 are the same cable?

Originally Posted by Nashkat1
What cables and wires do you have in the ceiling?
From your descriptions it looks like there should be two 3-conductor cables and one two-conductor cable there. Is that what you have?

Also, from your descriptions, it appears that you don't have the wiring you need to complete two standard 3-way circuits. Ray's diagram shows that each switch pair requires a 3-conductor cable between the pair of switches. And, as he said, you would have to have an additional 3-conductor cable from one of the wall boxes to the ceiling. We - all of us, including you - may be able to find some non-standard controls to help you make the controls work the way you want them to.

Tech Note: A 3-wire cable has two current-carrying conductors (B/W) and one ground wire. It is a 2-conductor cable. A 3-conductor cable has three current-carrying conductors (B/R/W) and one ground wire. It is a 4-wire cable.
 
  #7  
Old 10-28-13, 07:22 PM
Mr.Awesome's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 592
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is your fan just going to be on a toggle switch, or a fan control with different speeds?
 
  #8  
Old 10-28-13, 08:15 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Is your fan just going to be on a toggle switch, or a fan control with different speeds?
That's still to be discussed. It will be. The challenge at the moment is creating two two-location control sets.
 
  #9  
Old 10-29-13, 09:39 AM
7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
First, thanks for the help here.
This is the way I traced the wires. This situation is in a one room addition to the house with its own breaker box. I shut the breakers off. Then I disconnected all the wires from the switches and fan/light and seperated all the twisted wires so in the end I had each wire on its own. After I had seperated all the wires I turned the power on and used my test lamp to find the black wire with power. Then I shut the power off. The ceiling and two switch boxes are are realitively close to each other so I took a long test wire and started at the ceiling box on a wire in one of the cables. I connected my ohm meter to the other end of the test wire and checked each wire in the switch boxes until I got a reading. Then I attached the test wire to another wire in that same ceiling box cable and went to the cable in the switch box where I had gotten a reading before and checked the other wire(s) in that cable. If I got a reading then I knew it was in the same cable.
I'll take the information you have given me and the diagram and go over it again to see where I'm at and get back.
P.S. I'll be using the switches that I have, no dimmers.
 
  #10  
Old 10-29-13, 11:28 AM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Woo! Good job doing the testing! Those results look totally reliable.

I'll be using the switches that I have, no dimmers.
It does not appear, so far, that you have the wiring you need to achieve your goal with standard controls. Certainly the two SPST switches won't work for that:
Want control of light from two separate locations and control of fan from same two separate locations.
That would require two sets of 3-way switches - 4 3-way switches in all. The wiring would need to be 1 2-conductoe cable bringing power in, twp 3-conductor cables, one for each pair of switches, that travel from box to box, and one more 3-conductor cable, from the switches to the ceiling.

Is it possible that your electrician didn't understand what you wanted? Whether he(?) did or not, the installed wiring doesn't really make sense. It would be nice if you could get that person to correct it, or to pay to have someone else correct it.

Oh. Almost forgot. Do you have two 3-conductor cables and one 2-conductor cable in the ceiling box?
 
  #11  
Old 10-29-13, 11:53 AM
7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks again

Yes, I do have two 3-conductor cables and one 2-conductor cable at the ceiling box. I've attached a wiring diagram. I wish I could figure out where that red conductor from box #2 going to box #1 dissapeared to. I think if it went through to box #1 I could make this work. I guess it's time to call in a professional. The guy who did it originally is long gone.
Thanks again for all the input.

Steve
 
Attached Images  
  #12  
Old 10-29-13, 12:44 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Here is the cable layout you need to do it without remotes. If you can't run new cables the remotes are the best answer.

Name:  x.jpg
Views: 1839
Size:  15.0 KB
 
  #13  
Old 10-29-13, 12:56 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Yes, I do have two 3-conductor cables and one 2-conductor cable at the ceiling box. I've attached a wiring diagram.
Thanks, that matches what I have.

I wish I could figure out where that red conductor from box #2 going to box #1 disappeared to. I think if it went through to box #1 I could make this work.
Not with standard hard wired switches. That would give you one 3-conductor cable set. The two pieces of 3-conductor cable that meet in the ceiling box are the other set. That leaves you with a 2-conductor cable from the switches to the ceiling, which does not have enough wires in it to control two functions and supply neutral.

Uh-oh! I think I just "got" what your electrician did. Let me see:

Replace the two SPST switches with two 3-way switches;
In box #1, splice the supply neutral to the white wire in the 3-conductor cable;
Pigtail the supply hot and connect it to...

Nope, that won't work either. I have no idea what he was thinking.

I guess it's time to call in a professional.
Not so fast. I was just about to research whether you could do what you want with a pair of master-slave switches or only with a remote. Either way, it's something you can install yourself. Are you interested?
 
  #14  
Old 10-29-13, 02:04 PM
7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yep. I'm interested. I'm open to anything except going into my cold, small attic.
 
  #15  
Old 10-29-13, 02:44 PM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
I'm open to anything except going into my cold, small attic.
Okay, I found a master/slave pair that uses a wired remote. Before explaining how to do that, though, I'm realizing that I forgot to ask you one important question:

What is the make and model of your fan/light fixture? I want to see whether it's ball-and-bracket mounted or canopy mounted, and what kind of wiring and controls it has built in.

Thanks. Sorry for the delay.
 
  #16  
Old 10-30-13, 09:27 AM
7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
It's a Hunter, Model 25966, Fan/Light combination. It has three wires, Black, White and Black with a gray tracer. It's canopy mounted and has a pull chain for the three speed fan and a pull chain for the light.
 
  #17  
Old 10-30-13, 10:09 AM
Nashkat1's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 8,470
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Thanks. I would use a Lutron Maestro set to do this. Probably their MA-LFQM. Look for a package that has one MA-LFQ35M wall control, one MA-ALFQ35 accessory control, and one CM-L300FQ1 canopy module. You'll need to connect the unit to power and get it running and lit in order to set the pull chain switches the way they need to be, then drop it to hang from the edge of the canopy so you can change the wiring and install the canopy module.

That it's canopy mounted makes it a bit more of a hassle getting the wired remote in place, but it can be done.
 
  #18  
Old 10-31-13, 08:39 AM
7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
OK, I'll give this a try.
Thanks.
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: