Ceiling Fan, Light, Wires equals Fear

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Old 12-27-13, 12:47 AM
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Exclamation Ceiling Fan, Light, Wires equals Fear

Was trying to install a ceiling fan with a light in my bedroom and will admit that I may have bitten off more than I could chew.

Now please stay with on this, the ceiling has two black, two white, two ground, and one red wire. The ceiling fan has a light and only has one black, one white, and multiple ground wires (each metal piece has one). There is also another light in the Romans there are two switches one for each light.

So I connected the two black wires from the ceiling together, the two whites from the ceiling and the white from the fan together, the red from the ceiling and the black from the fan together, and all of the grounds together.

First problem: I didn't do anything with the switches and now turning one switch on turns on both the ceiling fan and the other light. Clearly something is wrong there.

Second problem/concern: there is a kind of burning smell, I almost want to say the kind of smell of something getting hot and the light is very hot but I don't know if I'm just paranoid or if this is a real concern stemming from the switch issue.

Would really appreciate some help as I clearly don't want to jeopardize my family and what started off seemingly easy clearly wasn't.
 
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Old 12-27-13, 04:19 AM
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Welcome to the forums! Did you remove a ceiling fan or light from this location? How were the wires connected to the original fixture? Did you take a picture of the wiring before you disconnected it? OK, basics out of the way. It may help us help you to post pictures of the wires in the ceiling box, separated for clarity. Don't disconnect any bundled wires, just pull them all out and take a pix of them. You are most likely dealing with a switch loop. Do any of the white wires in the ceiling box have a strip of black tape on them? You may want to remove the power from this circuit and post pictures of the switches pulled (but not disconnected) from the box so we can see the wiring there, too. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html
 
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Old 12-27-13, 07:57 AM
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You have to look at the whole circuit, not half the circuit to understand how the circuit is wired. The switch is the other half of the circuit. It also helps to think of it as cable types (unless conduit).
ceiling has two black, two white, two ground, and one red wire
What you more likely have is a 3-conductor cable (red, black, white) and a 2 conductor cable (black, white). That right there gives you a good guess on the circuit, 3-conductor switch loop and 2-conductor power in. 2-conductor status easily determined with a multimeter. If it is 120 volts (between black and white) it's power in.

Now take a look at the switch. Is the white pigtailed to both switches? Is red to one switch and black to the other? Well there is your answer right there, simple switch loop. Let us know what you find and we will go from there.
 
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Old 12-27-13, 11:30 PM
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Pictures Cometh

Thanks for the replies and the welcome. Think I have a better idea where this might go but have included pictures - hope they are explanatory enough. Want to answer Chandler's questions:
1. This was a reno and the contractor knew that the intention was to put a fan and possibly a light in this space (so I didn't remove a fan prior). He didn't know what kind of fan so I remember him saying something about allowing for separate fan and light control.
2. none of the wires had a strip of black (at least not that I remember).

Pictures painting a thousand words:
1. The beautiful fan - Kichler Arkwright with Incandescent Light
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2.Light Switches - Left switch was suppose to control fan; right controlled other fixture. Note: I didn't touch these switches and seeing how they are connected I think I see my problem.
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3. Behind Switches - Left no fan fixture; right fan fixture. Hard to see but there are two sets of black and white wires and one set with black, white, and red - on the right hand side.
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4. My Handiwork - maybe not the prettiest job but as I put in my original post, I connected the one red with the black from the fan; both white wires and the white wire from the fan together, and all grounds together (one ground in the fixture was already grounded so I didn't connect that too hence only one bare copper wire).
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Please let me know if you need more information or any additional pictures. Tried the switches again (didn't change anything) and I also still get that slight burning smell. Thanks.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 01:27 AM
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There is also another light in the Romans there are two switches one for each light.
No idea what this means.

I like the switch wiring. That doesn't look like the work of an electrician. Something changed from when the electrician did the work. In your picture you have a red and black wire on the switch. That would suggest that your 3 wire cable feeds up from the switch box and both the red and black are switched together.... which is exactly what you have happening.

The switch that has the red and black on it...... is that the one that controls the fan and the other light ? It would appear that you almost need three switches at that location.

You've got 4 cables jammed in the switch box. (4 neutrals in splice)
Three 2 wire cables and one 3 wire cable.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 08:02 AM
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There is also another light in the Romans there are two switches one for each light.
Should have read, "there is also another light in the room, there two switches [on the wall] one for each light."

As for the wiring, guilty as charged. Everything before the fan was done by an electrician which included the light switches. I did the fan and the associated wiring.

The fan I have has a remote that can control the light and the fan, there are only two wires from the fan (white and black) which is what had me confused because from my limited experience, I have an extra set of wires I don't need.
 
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Old 12-28-13, 08:12 AM
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If the red wire from the switch is also present in the ceiling box, along with the black, you can remove the red from the switch and cap it inside the box, and do the same in the ceiling box. Since you have a remote, you won't be needing separate switching to fan/light since the remote will perform that function. Hope that helped.

"romans", yeah voice to text is tricky, especially when you are a Southerner like me. Siri and the others don't understand southern english very well. I have to correct more than I type
 
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Old 12-28-13, 11:14 AM
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So when you say cap the red wire is it just that wire in both the switch and the fixture?

Think the only confusing part is with the switch, which wires do I connect in the switch? I assume the wire connecting the two switches should be disconnected but how do I connect the other wires.

As for the fixture, do I connect all the blacks together and all the whites?

Just want to make sure I am understanding properly.

Any comment about the burning smell? Is it likely just the heat from the light? Doesn't smell like actual burning just slightly burning.
 
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Old 01-05-14, 07:08 AM
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Remove the red wire from both the switch and ceiling box connection and cap them off. Only bundle all the blacks and whites if that is how they were originally. On your last pix, you show a bk & rd capped together. If you removed the red, where does the bk go?
 
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Old 01-05-14, 09:01 AM
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So the problem is there was no 'original' because it was a new construction so the wires were just bundled off in the box.

The red in the ceiling box is capped off with the black from the fan.

In the switch, the black and red are connected to the same switch they are from the same romex cable. I assume this black is live and wonder if I just connect one wire to each light switch if that would do it for the switch and cap off the red like you suggested.

Feels like I'm close.
 
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Old 01-05-14, 09:05 AM
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That is whaI was getting to. Cap the reds at both ends, connect the black from the fan to the blacks in the ceiling. Let us know
 
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Old 01-05-14, 09:09 AM
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Ok will do that today. As for the switch do I do anything else (like what I suggested below) or just cap the red?
 
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Old 01-05-14, 12:20 PM
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Cap the red. The switch will still provide switchable power to the canopy. Switch must be "on" for the remote to function.
 
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