Hi All,

First post in regards to a problem that is driving me insane.

Currently we have an upstairs recessed ceiling light that is controlled by three switches. One 3way at the bottom of the stairs, one 3way at the top of the stairs, and one 4way on the top floor outside of the office.

The 3 way(Switch #1) at the bottom of the stairs has the following.

1 - Red Wire
1 - White White
1 - Black Wire
1 - Ground

The 3 way switch(Switch #2) at the top of the stairs has the following.

2 - Black Wire
1 - White Wire
1- Ground

The 4 way Switch(Switch #3) outside of the office on the same level as switch #2 has the following:

2 - White
2 - Black
1 - Ground

Currently it seems as if there needs to be some sort of ancient Mayan code input with the switches in order to get the light to go on, or off. We would like(if we could) to have it so that no matter what switch one toggles the light goes on and off. So if I'm leaving the office, I flip switch #3, light is on, enter bedroom, flip switch #2, light goes out. Wake up in middle of night, flip switch #2, light goes on, go downstairs, turn it off with switch #1 etc etc.

First can our setup even do what we want? Second, if it can(because it currently isn't) what can I do to start trying to remedy the situation? It seems like one of the travelers and/or common is wired wrong, I just don't know where to begin.

Thanks in advance.

 

Welcome to the forums.

You've got some issues there. You should have a three wire cable between your first three way to your four way switch and then another three wire cable from your four way switch to your last three way switch.

That would give give you 2 three wire cables at the four way switch. It sounds like someone took the hot from one end and the neutral from the other end and tried to create a switch loop. Pretty creative but technically not correct.

 

From what you're saying it seems as if these switches should be going in some sort of order?

So, 3way -----> 4way ----> 3way ?

Mine is setup as the following:

3way ----> 3way ----> 4way

The 4 way switch is the last in line. I can see in the 4way switch a wire connector nut wayyyy in the back I didn't see before. It has 2 red wires both connected together. I'm assuming they are coming from the other switches.

 

If you see a red wire carried thru the four way switch location then that is correct. That means you do indeed have 2 three wire cables at the four way switch which is in the middle.

That's good. Please confirm the red wire is on the odd or dark colored screw of that switch.

What color wire is on the dark screw ? It should be black.
Can you disconnect just the wire off of the odd color screw and confirm that it is hot.

 

Yes.

If the cable going to the light fixture comes from a box with one of the 3-way switches in it, then it is set up to work the way you want it to. If that cable comes from the box with the 4-way switch in it, then it won't work without being rewired.

The physical location of the switches doesn't matter. The order in which the switches are connected to the incoming line feed, to each other and to the load is all that matters.

The last in line before what?

Assuming won't help you correct this. Testing with a multimeter -- preferably an analog one -- will.

 

Regardless of location, your 4 way is the center of the setup.
Your 4 way makes sense to me. Your bottom stair 3 way makes sense to me. Your top floor 3 way makes no sense to me. Is there a marrette/wire nut in the top stair box?

This picture is the only way I forsee this working with the information given (2 black 1 white at top stair 3 way). Old smart guys, please comment.

 

Figured this would be easier:

Bottom 3 way

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ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Top Three Way

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ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

4 Way

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

 

Bottom 3 way





Top 3 Way





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4 Way





Btw I take no credit for this wiring job, lol.

 

Welp, I tried to post pictures of the exact setup but it doesn't feel like letting me.

Here's how it is currently:

Bottom 3 way. Red wire, black screw, black wire, brass screw, white wire brass screw.

Top 3 way. Black to brass, black to black and white to brass. There is a nut with a black and white wire that I managed to fish out but I can't make heads and tails which black on the switch is from that nut.

Top 4 way.

Black to black, white to brass. Both sides.

I take no credit for this work lol.

 

Anytime you post more than 5 links in a post.... it goes to moderation.

I think I know what you problem is. Four way switches come in two wiring formats and it's confusing to know which you have.

Pertaining to the four way switch.........
Right now.... you have a black and a white wire on each side.
Try putting both blacks on one side and both whites on the other side.
It doesn't matter which black goes on the top or bottom screw. Same with the whites.

Be sure to change the wiring with the power off. Let us know what happens.

 

The wires should loop clockwise around the screws and should not have a sloppy fit as currently. there is a strip gauge to show how much needs to be stripped. Several wires are stripped too long.

 

Ok, did this, turned power back on. Now no switch can turn on or off the light.

 

Ok.... then the four way switch was wired correctly. That leaves a wiring issue at the three way switch with the 2 blacks and the white on the switch.

 

I agree but my first concern is just getting the light switch working properly then I will address the bad stripping. I swear the people who built this place...

 

The first concern and priority in electrical work is safety. I'm guessing you agree with that. That's why the exposed lengths of conductors need to be trimmed so that the insulation ends at the point where the termination begins, a.s.a.p. Do those as you're making the corrections needed to make the switches work properly and you'll not only have a safer setup, you'll only have to work in each box once. A win/win?

From what you've described, it sounds like this light is wired as a switch loop feeding a dead-end 3-way set. If there is only one 2-conductor cable in all three boxes, that is definitely the case. To confirm that, and to determine exactly which connections need to be changed, the surest way is to turn the circuit off, drop the light fixture, and see how the wires are connected there.

We also need to know the number of cables and the number of wires, by color, in each box. In particular, tell us this for the upstairs box that has the 3-way switch in it:If my guess is correct, this is where the switch loop comes in. It also sounds like the switch loop is connected backwards at the light.

Let us know what you find at the light.