Ceiling fan install with Picture!


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Old 04-07-14, 07:04 PM
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Ceiling fan install with Picture!

Evening everyone! Long time reader of the site, but a first time poster. I really need some help here and open to all you experts! I'm going to try to be as detailed as possible so everyone can understand what I' asking. Listed below is all the details...Just need to know what I connect from my fan to the ceiling box wires.

Job Task
  1. Install ceiling fan in bedroom

Electrical
  • Two switches in bedroom on the wall.
  • SWITCH 1 - Goes to wall outlet to control a lamp
  • SWITCH 2 - Goes to the ceiling fan box.
  • BOTH Switch 1 and Switch 2 have YELLOW and BLUE wires connected to its connections. NOTE: There is other wires in the flip switch box, but I dont see them connected to the actual flip switches. They may jump behind the switch.

Ceiling Fan Box
  • YELLOW and BROWN - Connected together
  • WHITE and GREY - Connected together
  • RED and BLUE - Connected together
  • YELLOW - Another yellow in box capped by itself

Ceiling fan wiring requirements to box
  1. RED to HOT
  2. WHITE to NEUTRAL

Picture of Ceiling fan box
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Thanks so much for taking a look at my post, and trying to help me get my ceiling fan installed without killing myself
 
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Old 04-07-14, 08:03 PM
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WHITE and GREY - Connected together
White and gray would normally be neutrals on two different breakers and would not be connected together.
 
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Old 04-07-14, 08:31 PM
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Thanks for the reply back.i will add this is a brand new house and just passed inspection from the municipality to release occupancy and they particularly looked at the ceiling fan wiring since it was added late.

As you can see in the photo white and grey are connected from the builder. Didn't touch anything.
 
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Old 04-07-14, 09:40 PM
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Long time reader of the site, but a first time poster.
Welcome to the forums.

Just need to know what I connect from my fan to the ceiling box wires.
We're going to need more information to answer your question:
  • Does your fan have a light?
  • How do you want to control the fan, and the light if there is one?
  • Everything from the wall box?
  • Everything with pull chains?
  • Some combination of these?
  • With a hand-held remote?
BOTH Switch 1 and Switch 2 have YELLOW and BLUE wires connected to its connections.
It appears that the blue wires are carrying unswitched power from your panel and the yellow wires are carrying switched power to the loads. Can you corroborate or correct that?

There is other wires in the flip switch box, but I dont see them connected to the actual flip switches. They may jump behind the switch.
With the power off, pull the two switches out far enough out to see all the wires in the box. Don't disconnect anything. Tell us how many wires you see, what color they are, and how they're terminated or spliced.

As you can see in the photo white and grey are connected from the builder
What I see when I look at your photo, is a yellow wire spliced to what appears to be a red wire but could be a brown wire, a white wire spliced to a black wire, and some additional wires inside the ceiling box. One of those may be a yellow wire that's capped off. Two others appear to be spliced together, but I can't see them clearly.
 

Last edited by Nashkat1; 04-07-14 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 04-08-14, 07:04 AM
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Thanks for the reply back.

To answer your questions please see below.

1. The fan box never had a fan or light installed. Just moved into the brand new house last week. The build sheet was for an electrical fan box. So once we received our fans (UPS) we where going to install.
2. The only thing the single pole switch needs to do is send power to the fan box in the ceiling. Everything for the fan is controlled through the receiver in the fan. The only wires that need to be connected to the fan from the ceiling fan box is a HOT, and NEUTRAL. This means no pull chains, light toggles etc.... Like I said the fan has a receiver built in so that I can use the supplied remote. Basically the switch will send power to the fan, and start its last program settings. Example, fan speed on medium with lights off. Turn off the switch and the fan shuts off.
3. BOTH Switch 1 and Switch 2 have YELLOW and BLUE wires connected to its connections. - What I mean by this is the switches on the wall have two connections on them since they are BOTH single pole switches. Two on the side, and a ground on the left (GREEN SCREW). Both switches have a blue wire connected at the bottom, and a yellow on the top. See picture.

NOTE: Please see the updated pictures so you have a clear understanding.

Thanks for your reply look forward to hearing back! Thanks!

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Old 04-08-14, 07:16 AM
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As a guess try the individual yellow wire at the ceiling and the white/gray. Best to check first with a multimeter, preferably analog, or a test light (but not a non contact tester).
 
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Old 04-08-14, 07:25 AM
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I would guess this

yellow is my power
and
white/grey are the neutral

By the way I do have a test light, but not a multimeter digital or analog.

Thanks for the reply!
 
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Old 04-08-14, 12:13 PM
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I do have a test light, but not a multimeter digital or analog.
Do you mean an electrical test light with two leads or a non-contact voltage detector?

A two-lead electrical test light should reliably tell you what you need to know; a non-contact voltage detector won't. If that's what you have you should buy an analog multimeter. They're commonly available, and you don't need one that costs more than $10 - $15.

Turn the switch for the ceiling box off. Pull the single yellow wire down from the ceiling box. Uncap the yellow wire and the white/gray splice. Test to determine whether that switch controls 120V that you can see between the yellow wire and the white/gray splice.

I would guess this
Ceiling fans are heavy and cumbersome. They're no fun to take down and put back up. It's better to know how the power works than to guess.

What I mean by this is the switches on the wall have two connections on them since they are BOTH single pole switches. Two on the side, and a ground on the left (GREEN SCREW). Both switches have a blue wire connected at the bottom, and a yellow on the top. See picture.
Understood all along. The question is whether blue is unswitched power and yellow is load or the other way around.

The wiring in your ceiling box makes it seem likely that the yellow wires supply the loads, but none of us, including you, will know that for sure unless you do the test described above.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 12:31 PM
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@Nashkat1

Just to make sure I have this right.
  1. Turn the switch off
  2. Pull the yellow wire from the ceiling, and un-cap it.
  3. Un-cap the white and grey wires.
  4. Test both wires for the 120V with the test light I have.

By the way yes I do have the electrical test light. Thats all I have. Can I ask what I'm looking for?

I'm guessing that we want to see the light turn on the test light when I check the yellow cable and no light when touching the white/grey since we assume they are neutrals??
 
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Old 04-08-14, 01:16 PM
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I'm guessing that we want to see the light turn on the test light when I check the yellow cable and no light when touching the white/grey since we assume they are neutrals??
There is no yellow cable. You have a yellow wire. Doesn't your test light have two probes. If not it isn't a test light. If it is a test light one probe to the yellow wire the other probe to the the gray and white wires twisted together with the wire nut removed. Switvh off should be 0 volts. Switch on should be 120 volts.

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Old 04-08-14, 01:35 PM
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Yes sorry didnt mean to say cable and yes I understand what you're saying now.

Simple terms MY TEST LIGHT WITH TWO PROBS = Red to the yellow, and black to the white/grey. then flip switch on and if its like we are thinking then it should light up. If it does the I know my HOT and neutral correct?

Thanks again
 
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Old 04-08-14, 01:39 PM
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Yes, that is correct.

.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 01:44 PM
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By the way yes I do have the electrical test light. Thats all I have.
So long as it has two leads and is rated for 120V AC, that should be all you need. If not, you should buy an analog multimeter.

Can I ask what I'm looking for?
I'm guessing that we want to see the light turn on the test light when I check the yellow cable and no light when touching the white/grey since we assume they are neutrals??
Still guessing and assuming? Let's test instead.

What you're looking for is switch-controlled 120V power hot-to-neutral. To find out where that is, do these tests in order:
  • With the breaker on and the switch off, touch one of your test lamp probes to the bare conductor in the yellow wire and the other one to your grounded ceiling box. The light should not come on.
  • Touch one of your test lamp probes to the bare conductors in the white/gray splice and the other one to your grounded ceiling box. The light should not come on. If both of those tests work as expected, turn the switch on.
  • Touch one of your test lamp probes to the bare conductor in the yellow wire and the other one to your grounded ceiling box. The light should come on.
  • Touch one of your test lamp probes to the bare conductors in the white/gray splice and the other one to your grounded ceiling box. The light should not come on.
  • Touch one of your test lamp probes to the bare conductor in the yellow wire and the other one to the bare conductors in the white/gray splice. The light should come on.
If those three tests work as expected, the single yellow wire is the switch-controlled 120V power hot-to-neutral and the gray/white splice is neutral.

I don't see a grounding connection in your ceiling box. If there isn't one, buy a ground tail (a green ground screw with a short length of green wire attached) and screw that into the box before starting.

Follow the manufacturer's instructions to mount and connect your fan/light combo. You need to use 10/24 screws in the mounting posts of your ceiling box to secure the fan's mounting bracket.

BTW, one question that should have been asked earlier: Is that box rated for fan support? Does it have that information stamped into it? Does it have two mounting posts that accept 10/24 screws, or four holes - two in the ears and two above those, in the back of the box - that accept those screws? If not, you'll need to replace the box.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 01:53 PM
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Yes its braced for ceiling fan like I said in my original post, and yes I have a green wire for the ground screw in the box. Actually the fan manual states only to use the ground wire if you use the rod, not when you are close mounting it. The box has conduit and is centrally grounded in the basement I believe near the water lines.

Thanks guys for all the help! I'm not trying to guess just trying to get all the facts (AT WORK) before I get home. I don't feel like dying today...haha

ty ty
 
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Old 04-08-14, 02:01 PM
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I blew up the photo earlier, Nash. It has square mounting posts.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ray2047
I blew up the photo earlier, Nash. It has square mounting posts.
OK, great. I hadn't done that.

Yes its braced for ceiling fan like I said in my original post,
I saw where you said "Ceiling fan box" as a title. I didn't see where you said it was a fan-rated box, so I didn't know whether you might be calling it that just because that's what you were planning to install there.

Yeah, I know -- picky, picky.

yes I have a green wire for the ground screw in the box. Actually the fan manual states only to use the ground wire if you use the rod, not when you are close mounting it.
for several reasons:
  1. Do you have a green wire screwed to the box to splice the fan's ground wires to or do you just have a green screw there?
  2. Really? Don't use the ground wire if you're close-mounting the fan? Can you post a link to the instructions?
  3. And are you planning to close-mount your fan? If so, why?
The box has conduit and is centrally grounded in the basement I believe near the water lines.
Yes, we know. That's why I said
Originally Posted by Nashkat1
and the other one to your grounded ceiling box.
I'm not trying to guess just trying to get all the facts (AT WORK) before I get home. I don't feel like dying today...
A noble ambition. So long as you have the power off at the breaker while you're working you shouldn't be in any danger -- at least not of being shocked.

Viper, it sounds like you're good to go now.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 03:15 PM
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Yes, I really do appreciate all your help folks! I'm a computer guy and I can attach a capacitor to a board, but when it comes to 120V and 240V get a little nervous, and want to make sure all my ducks are in a row. My name might be John, but dont want to do the Johnny homemaker mistake by being an idiot....haha

Yes, sorry meant to say it was ceiling fan rated. I couldn't see it on the box, but when I ran some coax in my house <<<( Computer guy), I seen the braces for all my ceiling fan box supports. They look very well done tbh.

I will give a final post on my conclusion, and if you dont hear back call 911...haha jk

Thanks again folks! Appreciate your time and effort to this noob.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 03:31 PM
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I will give a final post on my conclusion, and if you dont hear back call 911...haha
We look forward to hearing from you. If not, maybe one of our two sons who live in the Chicago area will be willing to make the call.

I would enjoy hearing the answers to my last three questions, if you're willing.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 06:39 PM
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Hey everyone last post and conclusion!

OK, so I hooked up the ceiling and is working as intended.

HOT = Brown and Yellow wires capped together
Neutral = White and Grey

I did what everyone stated. I took my two prong tester and connected one prong to the yellow(single), and second prong to the white/grey. I flipped the switch and didn't light up.

So then I tried the Brown/Yellow and white/grey and flipped the switch and and bingo light came on the tester. Then I tested brown/yellow and the other prong went to the ceiling box and it also lit up.

After talking with my builder today every room is hardwired for smoke detectors, and he said those other wires are going to the smoke detector 3 feet from the ceiling fan box. So that explains some other colors in the box I would guess?

@Nashkat1

1. I was wrong and didnt read the close to ceiling mount instructions. I did connect the green wire coming from the fan bracket to the green screw in the box.
2. Applies to the above comment.
3. We have standard height ceilings. So the wife and I didnt want it that low, and to be honest looks perfect as is.

Thanks for everyones help in this matter! I really appreciate it!
 
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Old 04-08-14, 06:59 PM
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We have standard height ceilings. So the wife and I didnt want it that low, and to be honest looks perfect as is.
Ceiling fans always look perfect.

I've only installed one fan as a close mount. It was in a space in my Mom's house that was an extension of the kitchen so it could have been a dining area. She used it as her den, though, so there was really nothing the fan except the floor.

I'm guessing you're saying your ceilings are 8'. Two of the three fans in our house are hung on 8' ceilings and they both have the short rod on them.

The reason I'm not a fan (yeah, I know) of close mounts isn't the look. It's the airflow, particularly in heating season. I just like to give the air more room to turn, and I like having less stress on the blades as they're pushing the air up.

But hey, it's your fan and your house and you're happy with it. That's all that really matters.

Well done.

HOT = Brown and Yellow wires capped together
Hmm. I wonder what's on the other end of that brown wire that's also being controlled by the switch. That makes no sense, frankly. If it were mine I would have disconnected the brown wire, at least until I knew what it did.

I wonder if it was meant to be spliced to the other yellow wire...

every room is hardwired for smoke detectors, and [my builder] said those other wires are going to the smoke detector 3 feet from the ceiling fan box.
3 feet from box to box? That could be interesting.
 
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Old 04-08-14, 08:06 PM
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Here is some final pictures.....Maybe you can see something in the switch panel I can't?

Ceiling Fan Pictures Slideshow | Photobucket

1. I see the brown in the wall box near the switch
2. Yeah I wish I could have used the down rod.
3. Maybe not 3 feet from the smoke detector but pretty close.

FINAL NOTE: So my wife and I purchased this brand new house and it was pretty much 90% complete. We noticed going through our walkthrough to give them an offer that Bedrooms 1, 2, and 3 had NO ceiling box outlets. So we asked them to install the 3. This was an easy task for them since they are all on the second floor and accessible through the attic. Can I ask maybe thats why the outs look a little different as far as color is concerned? Maybe that tapped into wires for that room?

Thanks again everyone!
 
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Old 04-08-14, 09:48 PM
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Maybe you can see something in the switch panel I can't?
That's a 2-gang switch box. The only panel in your house is in the basement.

And no, I can't see anything informative in your pictures of the wall box. That's because, in addition to being taken very close up, they are pictures of a 2-gang box with both switches mounted in it. If you want to learn how the conductors are connected and what the function of each might be in that box - or any box - you have to dismount the devices and pull them forward far enough to be able to see all of the wires, all of the conduit entrances, all splices and all terminations.

Turning the power off in the panel first is a good idea.

One thing I did learn from your slide show is that the smoke detector in this room is much further than 3' from the fan box. It's also just inside the door. This is as it should be.

BTW, what make and model of fan is that? It almost looks like a Minka Aire Casablanca, but not quite. How big is it? How big is the room?
 
 

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