Installing Ceiling Fan

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Old 08-11-14, 12:04 PM
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Question Installing Ceiling Fan

After over a month trying to login with my old persona, I am now "new" again! (NO HELP FROM THE ADMINISTRATOR).

Similarly, I "Added" a 3-way switch to a ceiling/light fan. The Power actually runs to the Fixture FROM the 1st light switch. Therefore, the second switch is NOT directly connected to the Fixture.

The problem is, both switches will work independently, when wired normally. However, only one at a time. If both are on, both also have to be turned off. When one is on, the other has no effect.

Bruce

A Master Electrician in conversation said to just eliminate the Power Wire to the 2nd switch. However, that doesn't work either.

Is there another way to have the switches work as a 3-way with both switches? I'm thinking that perhaps just running the Power directly to the fixture, and having just the Red & White wires at the Switches would make the necessary connection.

Any suggestions?
 
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Old 08-11-14, 12:53 PM
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I don't understand what you did. Can you explain it another way? Did you separate out the light and try to put it on a 3-way?
 
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Old 08-11-14, 01:08 PM
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After over a month trying to login with my old persona, I am now "new" again! (NO HELP FROM THE ADMINISTRATOR).
What was your old name? I can't find that you ever had any other name.
What Administrator are you talking about? If you couldn't log on, how did you get in touch with an administrator?
 
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Old 08-11-14, 01:12 PM
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The wiring from the 1st Switch to the Fixture is unchanged. The only changes were installing two (2) 3-ways and to ADD a 14-3-G to the 2nd 3-way switch from the original switch box.

Then wired the switches in a normal 3-way settup. Remember, the Power originates at the 1st switch, and there is NO direct connection to the Fixture from the 2nd.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 01:18 PM
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I didn't really remember what my old name was, but tried all that I thought. There are WAY too many similar names.

However, continually, even though I continue to receive ALL the Newsletters with my email address, DIY kept telling me that it was an "Invalid" address. I even tried using another from my ISP, and was told the same thing about it.

I have noticed today though, that the DIY site appears to not have some of the same problems it has the previous weeks.

Per the "Administrator", it was when trying to get logged in or even trying to get some help, that I got to the Contact page for the Administrator. That's also where the "Page" appeared to be under some faulty formatting.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 03:01 PM
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I am moving you and your replies to a new thread since it seems that wasn't your thread.
The wiring from the 1st Switch to the Fixture is unchanged.
Explain in detail wiring at both switches and the ceiling. Are you trying to switch only the light and have the fan always hot?
 
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Old 08-11-14, 03:16 PM
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Both the Light & Fan are Switched together. The 1st Switch Box and now 3-Way Switch is the ONLY one connected to the Ceiling Light/Fan Fixture.

What we have attempted to do is ADD a 3-way switch at a door on the opposite side of the room for convenience. After Wiring both 3-way Switches normally, as below, we found that both switches cannot be used together. Only one switch will work at a time. I.e., On and Off. IF the other switch is used after the 1st one, then there is no change in operation. However, one of those switches has to be turned off in order to use the other switch to turn off the Fixture.

Below, I was thinking that perhaps, basically eliminating the 3-ways as if only Single Pole Switches, then Running the Hot Black Wire directly to the Fixture would be a possibility. Then, using only the Red and White Wires as Neutrals to both Switches, making the final Neutral connection to the Fixture.

Wait, that won't work, I know, because the Hot and Neutral still need to be connected for the Fixture to work.

Do you have a better suggestion?
 

Last edited by RBHart; 08-11-14 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Error in Terminology
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Old 08-11-14, 03:19 PM
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BTW, even though a little different, this is still a 3-way Switch with a Ceiling Fan/Light Fixture! It was a new Fixture, but with no wiring changes at the fixture.
 

Last edited by RBHart; 08-11-14 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 08-11-14, 04:36 PM
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Is this how your 3-way and fan are wired?

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Old 08-11-14, 05:14 PM
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NO!

As stated, ONLY the 1st switch is wired to the Fan/Light. I.e., the Power source of original wiring from the breaker box is to and from the 1st switch/box.

The 2nd (new) switch is only connected to the 1st switch. This switch was added outside of the original wiring pattern.

The Power within your diagram would be to the Switch connected to the Fixture, and the new switch would be to the Left of that.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 06:22 PM
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Give me a bit of time and I'll post a different diagram.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 07:19 PM
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Is this how you have it wired?

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Old 08-11-14, 07:34 PM
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I think that's close to how I had it to begin with. A month ago, I left it without the Common on the 2nd switch, IF I remember correctly. And I'll have to check again, to see if I switched the Common on the 1st switch with one of the Travelers as well.

If I had it this way to begin with, it only worked with one switch in use.

I'll have to go back to my friend's place tomorrow and see.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 07:44 PM
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I suspect you were not connecting the power in cable to one common and the other common to the power out to the fan. There are two ways to do it. I show one way. Connecting the power in to the second switch by one wire of the 3-conductor cable and power out to the common of the first switch.. That was a real quick diagram and a bit sloppy so ask if any part confuses you.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 08:55 PM
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Well, no, because both the light & the Fan worked, when using one switch or the other. As below, IF the other switch was moved, one or the other had to be shut off first before the other switch could turn the fixture on or off. I think I used a short pigtail to connect to both the 1st switch and also the fixture.

But, still I'll wait to see what you come up with.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 09:15 PM
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I,m confused by your reply. I did post a correct diagram. I don't understand why you:
I used a short pigtail to connect to both the 1st switch and also the fixture.
No pigtailing is required. Per my diagram:
  • Power in black is connected to the second switch common via the black of the 3-conductor cable. No other connection is made.
  • Power to the fan is connected to the common of the first switch and nothing else.
  • White of power in and white to fan are connected to each other and nothing else.
  • The red and white of the 3-conductor cable are connected omly to the traveler screws of the two switches and nothing else.

Well, no, because both the light & the Fan worked, when using one switch or the other. As below, IF the other switch was moved, one or the other had to be shut off first before the other switch could turn the fixture on or off.
That is not the correct behavior. Either switch if you follow my second diagram will turn them on and off.

Attachment 36318
 
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Old 08-11-14, 09:40 PM
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Yep, this one makes sense. I believe my (and the Master Electrician friend) mistake was connecting the power to the 1st switch, instead of running it to the second (new) switch and let the travelers do the rest.

I'll check it out tomorrow, and let you know how it turns out.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 10:08 PM
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Not to confuse you but it can be done that way too but to keep it simple I chose one way and concentrated my instructions on that way. If you connect power to the common of the first switch you must connect the fan to the common of the second switch via one wire of the 3-conductor cable.
 
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Old 08-13-14, 07:30 AM
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Thanks Ray, It was successful!

Per the Pig Tails, I had just used short ones to the existing wires in order to have enough wire length for connection to the new switches. At least, after having to replace one of those pig tails, then redo one of the wire Nuts to the existing wire to the fixture, it now works fine!
 
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Old 08-13-14, 09:35 AM
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Glad you got it. Thanks for letting us know.
 
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