replacing existing light to 2 recessed can light

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-11-14, 11:00 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
replacing existing light to 2 recessed can light

hello.

i want to replace an existing light thats in the center of my bathroom, into 2 recessed light with about 5 feet away from each other (Not the shower area - just above the sink). I have already bought a romex 12/2 wire, 2 new recessed lens LED light from lowes (IC rated). Before i get started with it, i have a few questions.

Above the bathroom is the attic but my attic is really narrow and i cannot really crawl into the area on top fo the bathroom. And from what i can see with a flash light and about 6 feet away, its all insulation. So i gave up the possibility of running the wire from attic option. The light switch is on the wall but this wall is all tiled. So i think it would be difficult to run new wires all the way from the switch.

The way i plan on having the new lights is like this.

<new light > ---- 2.5ft away----- <existing light> ---- 2.5ft away ----- <new light>

Once i take down the existing light fixture, i know the wires will be exposed thru the metal electric box. Can i take away this electric box, and replace it with a junction box, and then do the wiring by extending 5 feet of wires to the left for the new light, and 5 feet to the right for the new light? Is it going to be a problem about this? Basically the wire will look like this.

to new light <-----5ft wire----- |__junction_box__| -----5ft wire----> to new light

Is this a weird way of doing it? or this is consider pretty common? I am in NYC, if that matters. I have asked the person in Lowes if i need the bx wire or romex is good enough. The person informed me 12/2 romex for 2 recessed light is good enough becuase my LED lights are only 9W.

Thanks.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-11-14, 11:19 AM
Handyone's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,451
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Can i take away this electric box, and replace it with a junction box
The existing ceiling box is a junction box. If you're asking if you can remove it, and replace it with one you can "hide or bury" in ceiling, no. J-box must be accessible.

Here's what you can do:

Determine if existing cable or cables going into existing ceiling box are long enough to reach one of your new can light locations. Most likely it will be the new can light nearest the switch.

This isn't simple or very easy, but it's the way to do it.
Once you remove existing ceiling box and cut new holes for can lights, this will give you room to get your hand up in attic and remove staples holding wires.
Be careful not to damage cable when removing staples, sometimes they can be hard to get out.

Post back for questions.
can "hide or bury" in ceiling, no. J-box must be accessible
The above may be debatable since you have an attic.
 
  #3  
Old 10-11-14, 11:41 AM
Mr.Awesome's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 588
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'm on Handyone's side with the j box, BUT...

One could argue that tucking the box up from where it sits is still accessible since it is in the attic. Hard to get to is still accessible. I personally think that is scabby, but you might get away with it.
Why not leave the o box and toss a paintable cover on it?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

Or toss a smoke detector on that box. It will look like it belongs.
 
  #4  
Old 10-11-14, 11:56 AM
Handyone's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,451
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Mr. Cool, I mean Mr. Awesome described that better than me.
Technically, a J-box in the attic is accessible.

Ideally, you would currently only have one cable coming into ceiling box, and all you have to do is relocate it.
 
  #5  
Old 10-11-14, 12:02 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi Handyone,

Thanks for the idea. I think i will go with that and remove that jbox, and use that original wire for the first can light closest to the switch.

A follow up question. The recess light that i bought , does not have those "Quick Connector" So do i do the daisy chain wiring INSIDE the first recessed light? Like the following.

Switch ----> First light (have wire come out from here) ----<Removed_JBox>----> Second light

OR do i need to do something like this?

Switch -----> Some exposable JBox ------ 2 wires ----> First and Second Light

This is the recessed light i bought:
Shop Utilitech Pro Brushed Nickel LED Remodel Recessed Light Kit (Common: 4-in; Actual: 5-in) at Lowes.com

Thanks.
 
  #6  
Old 10-11-14, 12:17 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi Mr. Awesome,

The problem with the smoke detector is that the light is right dead in the center of the bathroom. The moment you walk in, if you look up the ceilnig, you willl see it. So i think it obstructs the view. and i already have a smoke detector not too far outside of the bathroom.

thanks.
 
  #7  
Old 10-11-14, 12:19 PM
Handyone's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,451
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Switch ------> First light
If power comes into switch box, and you only had one cable at old ceiling box (black and white), Yes.

Remove ceiling box and release cable clamp. Undo staples and get old cable to new location.

After that, it's simple:

Can #1 has old cable coming in for power and new cable going out to light #2.

Light #2 has only one cable coming from light #1.

Connect blacks to blacks and whites to whites at each light. Ground as per instructions.

***This is only if the old light had only two wires***

A tip: Since you are connecting 2 12ga wires to one stranded wire, pre-twist the #12's. Also strip the stranded wire a little longer. You don't want the stranded wire to get pulled up too far inside wire nut. This can happen sometimes when connecting a large wire to a small stranded wire.
 
  #8  
Old 10-11-14, 03:54 PM
Mr.Awesome's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 588
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry I neglected to read the word "bathroom". Yes a smoke detector would look stupid there.
Handyone has your best solution of just moving the cable back to the first light and getting rid of the box altogether. If you can't, tuck it up in the attic because it will still be accessible to anyone who can worm their way to it. Try to keep the insulation away from it if you can.
 
  #9  
Old 10-11-14, 05:45 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If power comes into switch box, and you only had one cable at old ceiling box (black and white), Yes.
the romex 12/2, have 3 wires, isnt it? If the old cable only have 2 wires, where do i connect the 3rd wire from the new romax?

A tip: Since you are connecting 2 12ga wires to one stranded wire, pre-twist the #12's. Also strip the stranded wire a little longer. You don't want the stranded wire to get pulled up too far inside wire nut. This can happen sometimes when connecting a large wire to a small stranded wire.
what do you mean by connecting 2 12ga wire into one stranded wire..? I believe the old cable is a bx, and i will connect this into the 1st can light. Inside the can light, i will use my new 12/2 romax cable (3 wires) and extend it into the 2nd can light (which should also have 3 wires).

sorry for newbie question.

thanks.
 
  #10  
Old 10-11-14, 06:25 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
the romex 12/2, have 3 wires, isnt it? If the old cable only have 2 wires, where do i connect the 3rd wire from the new romax?
Then you have a major problem. Ungrounded cable can not be extended because any new installation must meet current code and with out a ground it can't. The metal sheath on older armored cable such as BX doesn't have a bonding strip and is usually considered an inadequate ground.
 
  #11  
Old 10-12-14, 09:59 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hi. i took off the jbox this morning, and i can see there is only 1 set of bx cable going into the jbox. The bx cable itself, has a black/white + silver thin metal wire thats not connected to anything.

So i think i have 3 wire cable going in. The new recessed light has 3 wires also, it is, White, Black, and Yellow.

I am pretty sure this is correct, but please correct me if i am wrong.

Old <-> New wires in 1st light <-> 12ga romex for 2nd light
Thin Metal wire <-> yellow wire <-> gray
Black <-> black <-> black
White <-> white <-> white

Thanks.
 
  #12  
Old 10-12-14, 10:18 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
The bx cable itself, has a black/white + silver thin metal wire thats not connected to anything.
Good this isn't older BX cable it is modern BX cable. In the case presuming you are allowed to use NM-b the new NM-b would be grounded to the box using a 10-32 grounding screw. If the box does not have a threaded hole you can use a grounding clip.
The new recessed light has 3 wires also, it is, White, Black, and Yellow
Are you sure? There should be a black, white, and bare or green. Yellow is not an expected color. Green with yellow stripe maybe but not solid yellow.
 
  #13  
Old 10-12-14, 10:23 AM
Handyone's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,451
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The wiring is simple. Hold off on that for now. See Ray's post from yesterday. The issue now is that you have BX Cable, and that wasn't mentioned previously. This changes things.

For now:
You have removed old ceiling box and BX reaches one of the can light locations?
 
  #14  
Old 10-12-14, 10:28 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
I posted as Brian was typing. See my post above his.
 
  #15  
Old 10-12-14, 11:16 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i have a problem.

i cut the hole, and everything is going great. and i just realized that i have been making a typo to this post.

the wire i got is not 12/2, it is a 14/2. (The lowes person told me 14/2 is good enough for the 2 led recessed light , so i didnt get 12/2)

i dont know why i keep saying i have 12/2, but i really just have 14/2 new romex wire.

Is this a problem to use it with this project?

Thanks,
 
  #16  
Old 10-12-14, 11:20 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
>> For the wiring color.

yes, it is a yellow stripe/green color . Sorry, i didnt make it clear on the wiring.

>> For now:
>> You have removed old ceiling box and BX reaches one of the can light locations?

yes, the original bx cable can reach to the first light i want to install.

So can i proceed with this?

old bx cable (3 wires inside) --> First light --> Romex out to 2nd light ---> 2nd light.

Thanks.
 
  #17  
Old 10-12-14, 11:29 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
#14 can only be used on a 15 amp breaker. If the breaker is 20 amps you must change the wire or the breaker. I'd take the wire back and ask for a refund since it was the store associate that made the mistake.
 
  #18  
Old 10-12-14, 04:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i will do that.

other than changing the wire to 12ga. is my current setup okay? (Which is by extending a 12/2 romex with a bx (3 wires) from 1st light into 2nd light.

Thanks.
 
  #19  
Old 10-12-14, 05:47 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
So long as NM-b is allowed by local code, yes. I ask because AC cable was used for wiring the house..
 
  #20  
Old 10-13-14, 07:34 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,909
Received 24 Votes on 20 Posts
If these lights will be over a vanity you will find out you are going to get very harsh and unflattering shadows under the brow and chin lines. Not a good thing when trying to do makeup.
 
  #21  
Old 10-14-14, 04:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 138
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Not a good thing when trying to do makeup.
Thanks. I will let my wife find out.
 
  #22  
Old 10-14-14, 05:03 PM
Mr.Awesome's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 588
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
When she is doing her makeup and has a shadow on her upper lip, ask her for tips on how to grow such a handsome mustache.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: