Kitchen Remodel

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Old 09-16-15, 12:13 PM
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Kitchen Remodel

Hello everyone.. I am doing a kitchen remodel, and I had a question about lighting.

I currently have one wire coming into the kitchen that connects to a switch that operates an overhead flourescent light fixture (It's a drop ceiling, and its one of the drop in ballists). During my remodel, I plan to purchase a newer one, and I am also going to use four recessed lights in the space, too.

The wire coming into the kitchen connects to a switch, which in turn connects to the light fixture. Ideally, I am going to install another dimmer switch next to the already in place switch, that will be used to control only the recessed lights.

I am going to add in a 2-gang box, and install the switches side by side. One switch will only turn on/off the main lighting, the other will be an on/off and a dimmer for the recessed lighting. My question is, can I wire both switches up to the same lead, or will there be too much draw to power that many lights? Essentially, where the wire comes into the current box at, I am going to splice it with wire connectors, and then feed into both switches, and then to the appropriate light fixtures. Would it be safe for me to do that, or do the recessed lights need their own dedicated line back to the breaker? The reason I am asking, is because the run is well over 300 feet, and with electrical wire in my area being about $60 for about 25 foot of it, if it'll be safe to just splice into what's already there, I will save the money.
 
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Old 09-16-15, 12:28 PM
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can I wire both switches up to the same lead, or will there be too much draw to power that many lights?
On the supply no problem but what else is connected to the breaker it is on?
 
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Old 09-16-15, 12:32 PM
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The only thing else that is connected to it, from what I can tell, are three outlets, but one is being replaced with a 250v for my range so there will only be two outlets connected to it (Which will only carry load for appliances like a toaster, can opener, etc, devices that wont always be plugged in), plus the two switches for the light fixtures.
 
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Old 09-16-15, 01:25 PM
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Receptacle circuits should not serve lighting loads.

Where are you located? it helps to know when answers are given.

A 300 foot run to the panel?
 
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Old 09-16-15, 01:31 PM
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I am using the existing wiring that is in the kitchen now. There are three outlets and the main overhead light wired up to the same circuit.

I am located in michigan, and yes, total distance going down and across is 300 feet, if not more.
 

Last edited by stickshift; 09-16-15 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Removed quoting of entire post
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Old 09-16-15, 01:37 PM
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Under modern code kitchens must have two dedicated 20 amp receptacle circuits. Since you are doing a major rewire I would suggest you install a 20 amp circuit for those receptacles and move them off the lighting circuit.
 
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Old 09-16-15, 01:43 PM
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It looks like i'm not going to be relocating receptacles then, or adding recessed lighting. There's no way I'm spending 1,000 just in the electrical wire just to gain one dimmer switch.

I wasn't going to do a 'major rewire', I was going to add another switch to an existing run to add in four recessed lights. If it requires me having to spend a thousand or more in the wiring to do it then it's going to stay how it is.

There are more receptacles in the room that are on a different circuit, so it does have two circuits, however if it requires adding one more breaker, and over 300 feet of wire for one or two switches, it's not worth the money to do it.
 
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Old 09-16-15, 03:47 PM
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I'm spending 1,000 just in the electrical wire just to gain one dimmer switch
I suspect you have serious estimating skill problems. I doubt your 300 foot quote. Most yards that houses set in aren't that deep. You would need 30 10x10 rooms stacked in a row to have 300 feet. I do know for a fact even if the 300 ft is correct but you could put the lights on a new 14-2 circuit for less than $70. 250 feet of NM wire.
Cerrowire 250 ft. 14/2 NM-B Wire-147-1472G - The Home Depot

100 feet: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire...7428/202316379
 

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Old 09-16-15, 03:50 PM
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Do you have an attic or basement? I ask because these are the easiest places to run new cable.

It might benefit you to map out every device in the house and what breakers the devices are on.

If you get lucky, you might have a 15amp breaker feeding only a few lights in the house, you could use this to feed the lights in the kitchen. Circuit should have a ground intact before extending.
 
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Old 09-17-15, 06:07 AM
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Thanks for the information. My estimation skills aren't bad, they are actually pretty accurate. I have a huge house, mostly length wise, and the fuse panel is located at the very front corner of my house. I need to run 50 feet to the back corner of the house, plus another 25 feet to the addition, then over 25 feet to the kitchen, into the wall, and then run all the wiring to all the outlets in the room, so 300 was being a bit generous with the distance. I was also looking at 14-3 wiring not 14-2, which is a lot more expensive. Seeing that 14-2 can be used, and it's much cheaper I should be able to wire up the new outlets. After tearing into the wall, I noticed it's knob and tube wiring in there too so I need to replace it anyways.
 
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Old 09-17-15, 07:42 AM
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Sorry to be doubtful. To be clear I was suggesting moving all the lights to the new 14-2 NM-b and capping off the old supply so there is nothing but receptacles on the old circuit.
 
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Old 09-17-15, 07:53 AM
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The old system is on knob and tube, so I am not sure how i'd 'cap it off'. I was going to leave the switches on the current system, and just run new wire for the electrical outlets. I was just thinking I need to run new wire anyway because I am installing a dishwasher and garbage disposal and they need a new outlet anyway.

I had seen online somewhere that code requires all outlets in a kitchen to be GFCI's. Is this true, or is it only if it's within 'x' distance of a sink/water source?
 
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Old 09-17-15, 08:13 AM
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Was trying to save you some money but from what you say we need a plan B. I wrote 14-2 for lights but receptacles by code need at least 12-2 on a 20 amp circuit.. Dishwasher and GD have to be on their own 20 amp circuit but can share that circuit. However because of distance for the run it might be good to use 10-2 to compensate for voltage drop on the run because of heavy amps of motors and heat.

Then with the K&T in the mix it gets worse. The K&T needs to be disconnected at both ends and abandoned in place because it has no ground and by code ungrounded circuits can not be extended. Given all that and the distance I would suggest a sub panel near the kitchen. A 12 space 100 amp main lug panel supplied by 8-3 or 6-3 NM-b on a 40 amp breaker. When you add up the cost for a minimum of one 14-2 and two 12-2 circuits it will probably be cheaper. I say 40 amp because I know you want to save money but 6-3 given the distance would be better because of voltage drop.. I know you want to be conservative with cost but you just aren't in an Ideal situation.

You may want to explore using XHHW aluminum individual conductors in conduit to save money. Aluminum needs to be up sized so you would need at least #6 or #4.
 
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Old 09-17-15, 08:22 AM
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Yeah, this is starting to become more of a project than it is worth. It already sounds like over 2,000 just in electrical work, and that's not something i'm interested in investing into the project for such a small gain. As it stands, i'm going to leave it how it is, and just use the receptacles that are already in place.

Thanks for the information.
 
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