How to hang this chandelier ?


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Old 10-09-15, 05:09 PM
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Lightbulb How to hang this chandelier ?

Hi,

My ceiling box is round, but I'm planning to buy a rectangular chandelier, please see picture below. How do I hang this light fixture? I searched online but couldn't find any instructions on how to install rectangular light fixtures lol. Hoping someone has experience here. Thanks a lot!!

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Old 10-09-15, 05:17 PM
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That fixture looks heavy. If it is..... get an electrician to install it.

The ceiling boxes are always round. There will be a back box that comes with your fixture that gets mounted to the junction box AND the ceiling. The junction box will not hold a fixture like that all by itself.

Although this is not your fixture.... it illustrated what a back box looks like. It will come with the fixture.





 

Last edited by PJmax; 10-09-15 at 05:36 PM. Reason: added pic
  #3  
Old 10-09-15, 05:29 PM
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That box needs to go and be replaced with a fan rated box.
It does not matter that the metal box is rectangular, the ceiling box to mount it to will still be round.
Not going to find any instrutions for mounting a rectangular fixture because it does not exist.
 
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Old 10-09-15, 05:35 PM
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It may require a fan rated box but more than likely not as the weight needs to be distributed beyond the box.
 
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Old 10-09-15, 05:50 PM
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I already have an electrician checked out the box as that was my first concern too. Both electricians said the box is mounted to studs/joints? and is very sturdy. this chandelier is only 30lbs and the box can hold much more than that.

My question is, there are 4 strings attached to the cap, are they supposed to be mounted to the ceiling or not? Online review of this product says it comes with minimal instructions lol
 
  #6  
Old 10-09-15, 05:57 PM
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There are no strings.
Those cables are attached to to the rectanguler cover, not to the ceiling.
Your just way over thinking this one.
It's install 101.
Might take someone that knows what there doing 1/2 hour to install.
 
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Old 10-09-15, 06:17 PM
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Thanks guys.

Another question, how do I mount the back box to ceiling?

The electrician is quoting $300 to install the chandelier which is more expensive than the fixture itself. I am trying to gauge if my husband and me can DIY!
 
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Old 10-09-15, 07:35 PM
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Back box?
No one here can see how it's mounted from that picture.
Any I've done use that same type hollow screw you have now.
Just can not imagine it being $300.00!
Looks like a simple DIY to me.
 
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Old 10-09-15, 07:41 PM
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Show us actual pictures of the canopy and mounting piece it fits over. You may need to fasten the mounting piece to both the box and the ceiling.
 
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Old 10-09-15, 07:43 PM
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No I mean how is it usually done, like does it have to be mounted to stud or drywall? I do have a stud finder but not sure if I can use it on ceilings to find out where the stud is.
 
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Old 10-09-15, 07:46 PM
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I've hung those types of fixtures. It should have a knockout in the back with screw holes that will attach the backbox to the junction box. In addition there will be extra holes in the plate where it gets fastened to the ceiling itself.

It should look something like my diagram. After the plate is installed on the ceiling there are four screws (yellow) that hold the fixture to the backbox.

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I'll use an expanding metal molly to hold the plate to the ceiling.

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Old 10-09-15, 07:46 PM
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Sure will do. I am going to purchase this fixture right now and will post pictures when I receive it
 
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Old 10-09-15, 07:55 PM
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Thank you so much PJmax!!! This diagram is very helpful! Now I understand how it works!
 
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Old 10-09-15, 08:54 PM
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It may mount themsame,way as the photo you show. You just need to square up the canopy to the walls.
 
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Old 10-10-15, 06:26 AM
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I contacted the seller for a copy of the instruction.
Exactly like PJmax said

my next question is - connect hot wire to brown and neutral to blue, and ground to bracket??? is that right? the light fixture does not have a ground? is that safe? this is a european chandelier btw.

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Old 10-10-15, 06:30 AM
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and btw, looks like the fixture will be mounted to ceiling ONLY. not the ceiling box.
 
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Old 10-10-15, 07:36 AM
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my next question is - connect hot wire to brown and neutral to blue, and ground to bracket??? is that right? the light fixture does not have a ground? is that safe? this is a european chandelier btw.
Not a US fixture should have been the first line of your first post. That is the primary problem. It is a 220 volt fixture using 220 volt bulbs. You are installing it on a 120 volt circuit. It may be convertible to 120 volt bulbs but that might require changing the bulb sockets on the light.
 
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Old 10-10-15, 08:59 AM
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It is listed on amazon as 110v fixture. It does use E14 bulbs, but E12 can also be used with bulb adaptor.

my question is - is it safe that this fixture does not have a ground wire? sounds odd to connect the ground to the bracket.
 
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Old 10-10-15, 09:50 AM
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The wire colors you quoted are for a 220 European fixture. Assuming it will take 120 bulbs and the colors are as listed, yes, brown connects to house black and blue connects to house white. The blue should be remarked with white tape. It seems the manufacturer is assuming a grounded metal box. You do seem to have a metal box and a ground wire. Ground the box and fasten the mounting plate to the box.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-19-15 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 10-10-15, 08:42 PM
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Thank you Ray. I thought that although this fixture was made in Europe, they might have made it compatible with 120v conduit for the US as they sell it in the US. And a lot of Amazon users in the states use it no problem. So is it safe to use 220v fixture on 120v conduit?
My box is a metal box and has ground wire, does that mean it is grounded?

Thanks!
 
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Old 10-10-15, 09:04 PM
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Yes.... your metal box is most likely grounded and connecting at least one screw to the box will ground the fixture.

The fixture should work fine on 120v. You'll just need to make sure you use 120v bulbs.
 
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Old 10-11-15, 06:13 PM
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Yes.... your metal box is most likely grounded and connecting at least one screw to the box will ground the fixture.

The fixture should work fine on 120v. You'll just need to make sure you use 120v bulbs.
Thank you!!
the message i entered is too short, make it to 25 characters....
 
  #23  
Old 10-13-15, 01:57 PM
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I have done this.

Anything over 25 pounds requires a ceiling box with a hanging strap or bracket fastened to the joists on either side. It will have a threaded stud in the center of the box to attach the chandelier mounting equipment to.

Anything over 50 pounds must be supported by a means other than the ceiling box. This is usually a hanger or pipe flange screwed directly to the studs.
 
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Old 10-13-15, 10:41 PM
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If you read the replies you'll see that the fixture in question has a back box that gets mounted to the ceiling and has NO hanging connection to the junction box. Therefore a fan box would be useless in this application.
 
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Old 10-19-15, 05:17 PM
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hello, the chandelier was delivered earlier today.
Uploading pictures of the canopy and wires.

according to the instruction, step 1 is to install the bracket to the ceiling. The bracket, I believe is attached to the canopy with 2 fasteners, see below image. How do I install the bracket to the ceiling?
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below image is the flip side of the canopy.
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Instruction says connect hot wire to brown wire and neutral wire to the blue wire. I dont see brown or blue...what is this wire? lol Any help is appreciated!

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Old 10-19-15, 05:37 PM
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I found 2 fasteners like the below (my finger pointing the fastener, what type of fastener is this), I guess that's what I am supposed to be using to mount the bracket to the ceiling...
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and a diagram that makes no sense to me. I dont get what is the mounting screw and what is the fastening screw. Is the fastener i found in the first picture a fastening screw? does it have to be drilled into a joist? the distance between the two holes seems shorter than the ceiling box diameter.

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Last edited by emmawu; 10-19-15 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:31 PM
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Not sure what kind of fastener that is but as PJ wrote
use an expanding metal molly to hold the plate to the ceiling.

Attachment 57193
You will need to use a fender washer or drill smaller holes. See post #11.
Instruction says connect hot wire to brown wire and neutral wire to the blue wire. I dont see brown or blue...what is this wire?
As I wrote In post #19
brown connects to house black and blue connects to house white.
You also need to need to fasten to the ceiling box for grounding and support.. House ground must be connected to the ceiling junction box (scrape off the paint) with a 10-32 machine screw. If any of this is not possible or the ceiling junction box isn't metal post back.

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Above is best guess but just remember this is not designed for mounting in the USA and some modification may be necessary. The pictures only go so far. I could do it hands on but from pictures I have to guess a bit.

As said if you use the existing holes fender washers may be necessary.

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Last edited by ray2047; 10-19-15 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 10-20-15, 09:51 AM
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Thank you so much Ray!

as for the wires, I only see a yellow and two silver wires from the fixture, there is no brown or blue. The yellow appears to be ground, as I see copper wires coming out from the end. But how do I know which of those silver ones is hot and which is neutral?

I need to measure if the distance between the holes line up with ceiling box ears, will post back. I do have a metal ceiling box.
 
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Old 10-20-15, 10:17 AM
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That mounting bar is not what I was expecting. That fixture appears to be designed to be mounted directly to masonry. That's why it came with those expansion bolts. I don't know if those two mounting holes line up with the box but depending on the weight..... and it looks VERY heavy.... the box is not strong enough to support the light.

That is not going to be an easy light to hang.

As I look at your first picture, the one with the box, I see it's a pancake box. That means it's mounted directly to the bottom of a joist. You should take the screws out of the back of the box and let it drop to visually see which direction the joist is running in. You may be able to lag bolt the fixture bar into the joist.

You may be able to replace that box with the following type. The two long screws would go thru the fixture bar, thru the box and into the joist.

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Old 10-20-15, 10:26 AM
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You are going to need a multimeter to determine which wire is which. Do yo have one?
 
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Old 10-20-15, 12:18 PM
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The fixture is 30 lbs including the crystals. The current box should be able to hold up to 50 lbs. if I need to change the ceiling box, I will have to call in professional help. Was hoping I don't need to change the ceiling box.

Yes I do have a voltage reader with two probes.. Please tell me how to test the wires? Thank you!
 
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Old 10-20-15, 12:35 PM
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Btw since these two fasteners are expansion bolts, they can only be used on drywall but not joists right?
 
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Old 10-20-15, 02:02 PM
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I wouldn't use expansion bolts in anything but concrete or maybe very hard thick plaster. I would never use them in dry wall and consider the enclosed fasteners not suitable for their intended purpose. If it turns out there is a ceiling joist parallel to the backing plate use #8x1" pan head sheet metal screws.
 
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Old 10-20-15, 02:18 PM
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The current box may be strong enough but you're at the mercy of what is holding that box to the joist. That box was installed later so it wouldn't be hard to change.

Otherwise if you leave the box as it is..... see if you can install two large screws thru the hanger that will span, or be out side of, the box.
 
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Old 10-20-15, 03:06 PM
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I just measured the distance between box ears - 4inches
the distance between the two holes in the bracket - 2.5 inches
width of canopy - little shy of 4 inches
from the bracket hole to the edge of the canopy - 3 inches

definitely cannot use the existing ceiling box to support the fixture since there is nowhere I can mount the screws to

Based on what PJ and Ray suggested, I have two options:

Option 1: If I change the ceiling box as PJ said, does the box has to have 2 holes at the bottom measuring 2.5 inches apart? or simply drill 2 holes if there is not? do the 2 long screws go in the purple spots marked below (assuming they are the box ears), or drill two green holes measuring 2.5 inches apart?

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Option 2: Don't change current box. as Ray said, If I mount the bracket to the ceiling using metal moly, say I mount the bracket to the left of the current box. Connect the wires and cover everything with the canopy. Problem is - only 3 inches from the bracket hole to the edge of the canopy, so definitely not able to cover a 4-inch diameter box.

Does that mean I am only left with option 1?

Thanks again both PJ and Ray, you guys have been great help!
 

Last edited by emmawu; 10-20-15 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 10-20-15, 08:53 PM
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If those mounting holes are only 2-1/2" apart.... then that light was made for a specific purpose or mounting place.

Here's how I would hang it. Replace the box with the saddle box. Drill new holes (red dots) in the fixture bar at the locations where the screws can go thru the box at the purple locations.

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If you can't drill the fixture bar then I don't see why you couldn't drill the box except that the screws are fairly close together. Spaced further apart would supply more stability to the installation.
 
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Old 10-21-15, 07:05 AM
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Thanks PJ!
What drill bit should I use to drill steel? And how about the size of the drill bit? Same with the screw size ?

Thanks.
 
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Old 10-21-15, 07:24 AM
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Any good drill bit will drill steel. Off the top of my head before I have had breakfast I'd guess 3/16". This chart says 11/64 for #8 but a little play is better. Proper Drill Bit Size - American Fastener Technologies Corporation
 
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Old 10-21-15, 07:56 AM
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If I change the box to a saddle box, the box won't be metal. Does it matter?
 
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Old 10-21-15, 09:38 AM
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The house ground needs to be connected to the light ground with a wire nut. Use a multimeter (an $8-$15 analog* multimeter is good) to determine which wire of the light is ground. It is probably the yellow but always best to double check.

*Do not buy a digital multimeter. While for your current purpose they are fine in other uses they may give a misleading reading.
 
 

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