Ceiling fan circuit

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  #1  
Old 08-04-16, 12:26 PM
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Ceiling fan circuit

I removed my kitchen ceiling fan to clean it; but, when I reinstalled it, I was unable to find a connection that allowed the fan and light to energize independently. 120VAC enters the ceiling box; and, is conducted to the wall box where there is a 3-speed fan switch and an SPST light switch. In the wall box there are 2 additional wires for the fan and light circuit; and, another wire for a light in the breakfast nook. I can turn the fan and nook light on/off with the SPST switch; and, I can operate the fan with the 3-speed switch. My problem is that when I energize the fan switch, the fan light comes on even if the SPST switch is off. And, if I turn the SPST switch "on" while the fan is operating, the fan light goes off. Also, when I turn the fan light on while the fan is not operating, I hear a soft squeal as if the current is passing through the fan motor. I've tried reversing polarity at the switches; but, the same issue continues. Any ideas on how to resolve this?

Mfd by Crompton Greaves Ltd
Bombay, India
1200mm sweep
77 watts
110vac
Type CZ66
60 Hz

Dist. by Encon Ind. Inc.
 
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Old 08-04-16, 03:13 PM
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You will have to remove the ceiling fan and post a picture of all the wires in the ceiling box. Here's a link:

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html

If all the functions worked previously and the switches weren't changed, the problem is in the ceiling. There are probably one or two wires that were connected wrong.
 
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Old 08-04-16, 03:31 PM
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You definitely miswired it at the ceiling. It sounds like you missed the correct neutral (white wire).
 
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Old 08-04-16, 03:31 PM
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I've tried reversing polarity at the switches; but, the same issue continues.
Polarity is not relevant to AC circuits. Do you mean swapped wires? Basic wiring at the fan is:
  • Fan neutral to house neutral.
  • Fan motor black to switched black house power.
  • Light blue to switched red house power.

If power comes in at the fan:

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If power comes in at the switch:

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If your power comes in at the fan look at the two whites in the first diagram. That is what PJ is referring to.
It sounds like you missed the correct neutral (white wire).
 
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Old 08-05-16, 07:15 AM
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PJ:
Thanks for the reply. There is a cluster of neutrals at the ceiling box. I intend to separate those to see if anything changes.
Sunny.
 
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Old 08-05-16, 07:19 AM
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Ray:
Thanks for the reply. There is a cluster of neutrals at the ceiling box. I intend to separate those to see if anything changes.
Sunny.
 
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Old 08-05-16, 07:22 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I'll get a photo up later today, if I still have issues.
Sunny.

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See attached photos.
 

Last edited by sunnydas; 08-05-16 at 10:21 AM. Reason: added pics
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Old 08-05-16, 10:44 AM
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If you have only a single 3-conductor cable (black, red, white) at the switch and only one 3-conductor cable at the fan then that white at the fan does not connect to the other neutrals. See my first diagram above. Post a picture of your wiring at the switches. Pull the switches out but do not disconnect.
 
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Old 08-05-16, 02:01 PM
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Ray:
Thanks for the reply. I'll upload a picture of the switches tomorrow morning.
Sunny.
 
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Old 08-06-16, 07:24 AM
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Here are the photos at the 2 switches that you requested; Hot (white) & fan lead at top terminal, nook and fan light on bottom terminal. The hot at ceiling box is black, so I'm not sure how the hot at the wall box is white. Other fan lead connected to black wire in back of box. Thanks, Sunny.
 
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Old 08-06-16, 09:10 AM
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So where is the red wire at the switch?
 
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Old 08-07-16, 08:14 AM
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Ray:

There is no red wire at the wall or ceiling box. There is a red wire at the fan which energizes the light circuit. The fan light is on the bottom terminal of the SPST switch in the wall box. See photos for colors.

Thanks, Sunny.
 
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Old 08-07-16, 09:07 AM
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There is a red wire at the fan which energizes the light circuit.
Power in would in almost all cases be a 2-conductor cable with just a black and white wire, no red. Please explain how you determined the red wire "energizes" the circuit.
 
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Old 08-08-16, 07:20 AM
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If you transpose the red and black wires leading to the fan components (see pic), then the SPST switch at the wall energizes the fan and vice versa.
 
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Old 08-08-16, 09:09 AM
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Do I see white wires at the switch? How are they connected?
 
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Old 08-09-16, 07:49 AM
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Ray:

Yes, you did. A white wire delivers power to the SPST and, via parallel connection, to the fan switch. I'm not sure where it changes color from black to white. I suspect the black from the ceiling box picks up a receptacle circuit and continues to the wall box on a white wire. That was very confusing to me. Hope this info helps.

Sunny.
 
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Old 08-09-16, 09:23 AM
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Sorry but your circuit confuses me also. If I were on site I'd disconnect all wires and using a multimeter set to volts determine which cable was power in. Then use the multimeter set to ohms determine where each cable went. Then wire from scratch using existing cables. By remote there is just to many cables for me to say. The red is the real puzzler in this. It may be there is another junction box between the switch and the light that you haven't found. My best advice is at this point call an electrician.

Final thought hopefully you haven't been using a non contact tester for testing. It is just to unreliable for real testing. For testing you need a (cheap) analog, not digital, multimeter and wires must be disconnected when testing. Testing should be to neutral of the cable or ground.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 08-09-16 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 08-11-16, 02:49 PM
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OK, thanks for the advice. I'll ohm out the circuit and see where everything goes. Sunny.
 
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Old 08-27-16, 02:36 PM
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So, I finally got around to pulling the fan off to check it out only to find the internal wiring of the fan had the light and the fan motor wired in parallel. It appeared that one of the wires that eventually led to the motor/light set was damaged. After unsuccessfully trying to disassemble the fan to expose the damaged wire, I decided to trash the fan and install a new one. Everything works as it should. Issue resolved.
 
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Old 08-27-16, 08:01 PM
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Thanks for letting us know the outcome.
 
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