Recessed fixtures: wiring and installation


  #1  
Old 01-07-17, 05:02 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Recessed fixtures: wiring and installation

Hello

I am replacing the ceiling with 8 recessed can lights. (2 x 4 layout with 4 feet apart) I bought them from lowes already and there was a ceiling fan there originally. And I have taken it off.

Looking at what's behind the sheet rock ceiling, the joists are vertical and I want to span he lights horizontally. And the space between the ceiling and the upstairs is literally just the height of that joists. (About 10 inches? The standard one that you see when people are building houses)

Now my question is. For me to pull the wiring thru, it looks like I have to drill holes thru the joist.

If the joists is about every 16" and my recessed light will be about 48" apart. Do I open the ceiling across completely to make things easier in one go, or do I just open a small 4x4 hole at every 16" to drill a hole on the joist?

How does contractor do this ? Years ago, my parents asked some contractor to install recess lights in Mitch and I would think this is a common problem, but the contractor didn't have to open a lot of holes. As the matter of fact, he just needed open the hole exactly where the light goes and somehow he can get the wire thru.

Thanks


EDIT: Pictures

like this:

Name:  File_000 (9).jpg
Views: 372
Size:  17.8 KBName:  File_001 (3).jpg
Views: 381
Size:  43.8 KB
 

Last edited by takkie; 01-07-17 at 05:38 PM. Reason: posting picture
  #2  
Old 01-07-17, 05:09 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 64,626
Received 3,891 Upvotes on 3,488 Posts
You install high hats with a grain of salt. Installing them is very easy.
Placing them where something is behind them can be a problem.

I lay the ceiling out and mark center of fixture in pencil. Then I'll take a long thin screwdriver and insert it in the center mark. I'll check completely in ALL directions for obstructions. Every fixture. Hitting something in any location could cause all fixtures to need to be moved based on centering.

Some fixtures will be in the same bay and those are easy to wire. The ones that are in adjacent bays will need to have the joists drilled.

In the diagram below..... you can drill thru one fixture opening into a empty bay and same from the other end. Just one example. The blue arrows show drilling a hole.

Name:  hi hats.jpg
Views: 384
Size:  13.1 KB
 
  #3  
Old 01-07-17, 05:14 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
You can use shallow retrofit cans for the 10" space. I like to use a 6' x3/4" flexible drill bit and drill from can light hole across to the next one. Laterally you won't have a problem. Once the bit goes through the last joist, attach a pull media in the hole provided and pull it back through. You can also attach your cable to it by bending and taping the grounding wire through the hole.
Milwaukee 3/4 in. x 72 in. Cable Bit-48-13-8375 - The Home Depot
 
  #4  
Old 01-07-17, 05:53 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks. But for me to fit this drill bit thru one joist to another. I will need a large opening , isn't it?

Are you suggesting I only need to open the 4" light can diameter and somehow there is a drill bit that can go thru the joists?

I have a stud tester so I can find where the joists are, I am just unsure how to get the cables thru without opening too much ceiling.
 
  #5  
Old 01-07-17, 07:30 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 64,626
Received 3,891 Upvotes on 3,488 Posts
What size cans are you putting in ? 4" doesn't make the job any easier.

Obviously you can't put one where the pancake box was.
 
  #6  
Old 01-08-17, 05:22 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
I agree with Pete, the 4" hole will be a challenge. Bear in mind the bit is super flexible so it will drill holed through the joists fairly parallel to the ceiling if you start it right. If you could graduate to 6" cans, drill your 6 1/4" hole (or size recommended by the can mfgr) you will have enough bending room to do it.
 
  #7  
Old 01-08-17, 11:05 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Hi.

the cans that i bought was a 4" cans.

I drew a diagram and i have calculated how many joists i actually have to go thru. Can you help to have a look and see if the below has any issues?

The X is where the old ceiling fan is.
The straight lines are joists
The Circle is where i plan on putting the recess lighting.
Each recess light will be approximately 52" apart from each other.

With the flexible drill bit, how does it maintain its straight line when i put it thru the recess can light hole? Wouldn't it go off the straight line, and it may actually drill too high, or too low of the joists...etc...

OR, would you think with a 4" opening, its just too narrow with flexi bit and i mind as well open up the ceiling where i need to? (Since, i have to patch the "X" location already anyway.)

Name:  File_000 (6).jpg
Views: 347
Size:  33.1 KB

Thanks
 
  #8  
Old 01-08-17, 11:13 AM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 13,970
Received 194 Upvotes on 170 Posts
The flexible bit can wander. It can also hit hidden plumbing and wiring as it goes through the joists.
 
  #9  
Old 01-08-17, 11:52 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
i think i will just open up the ceiling for easier access, atleast i can see whats behind it and can manage it myself, without guessing work.
 
  #10  
Old 01-08-17, 08:04 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Hello.

i proceeded today and cut all the holes for the can, and also pull the wiring.

i am 80% done and i stopped on the last 3 lights wiring because i needed to open 4 holes on ceiling to connect to those 3 lights.

And also, i found that connecting so many wires with the nut cap is really a pain... my fingers are all numb from twisting these wires together, and try to find a cap that is big enough to fit 3 copper wire and the wires from the light.

what type of quick connector is available that takes 4 sets of RED/BLACK/GROUND? (1x wire from the light in same bay + 1x wire to power up the light on the left + 1x wire to accept power from the right + the light itself)

or i should use a junction box to wire the LEFT + RIGHT + FRONTBAY light together , and OUT to the actual light itself...
 
  #11  
Old 01-08-17, 08:15 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 64,626
Received 3,891 Upvotes on 3,488 Posts
Many recessed lights come with a push in type connection for multiple wires.

Since I don't intend to be removing the cans again..... I use the twist and wire nut method. Red (76B) wire nuts would be the ones to use.
 
  #12  
Old 01-09-17, 05:10 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
As Pete said, most fixtures will have push in connectors. Are you connecting the cans ? You aren't making connections and leaving them in the ceiling, hopefully. All connections must be in an enclosure and covered.

Ideal 34 Yellow In-Sure 4-Port Connector (100-Pack)-30-1034P - The Home Depot

PUt all your blacks in one connector, whites and ground in separate ones.
 
  #13  
Old 01-11-17, 08:24 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
yes i am connecting cans. I didn't leave the connection open in the ceiling. So far i have all wired them into the little tin box that comes with the recessed light. The light i bought didn't have the push in connector for wiring next can - so i have been using some wire nut.

i also bought a 4 port connector from amazon. (I could not find it in home depot for some reason when i was there yesterday) Amazon was a bit more than HD..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I will use this and hopefully that will make things easier.

thank you for your help.
 
  #14  
Old 01-14-17, 06:50 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Hello all

I have finished installing the recess lights and it works well. However. The last one gives a buzzing noise when it's on.

If I do not put that particular light bulb in, (7 out of 8 lights on) there is no buzzing.

If I put a bulb in, the buzz comes.

So I am trying to see if it's the wiring or is it the recess light being defective? It is the one at the corner? (The last one that do not gets power by adjacent light but do not connect to any other light)

What would it be? I do noticed the socket there I screw the led light on is a bit loose where it can flip slight left and right.

It is a par20 bulb, if it makes a difference.

Thanks.
 
  #15  
Old 01-14-17, 06:55 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 29,711
Upvotes: 0
Received 15 Upvotes on 13 Posts
If you have a dimmer check if the noise is coming from the dimmer. If not try slightly bending up the tab at the bottom of the bulb socket.
 
  #16  
Old 01-14-17, 11:02 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Hi

After listening to the dimmer. (It was an old existing Lutron dimmer) I did hear buzzing noise from dimmer. I can also hear the buzzing noise at the light also. I listen carefully to other light and can hear slight buzzing noise. So I was wrong the buzzing noise came from last light only.

I replaced it with another dimmer that I have ,which is a decora 300w max led/halogen/cfl dimmer.

I installed 8 of these and these led bulbs are 50w each led par20. So that's 400w.

Is that the reason? And if so, what are my options?

I can think of,

Change bulbs // prefer not
Buy a dimmer that can do 400w

Any other possible cause?

Thanks
 
  #17  
Old 01-14-17, 11:39 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 64,626
Received 3,891 Upvotes on 3,488 Posts
The sound you are hearing is the filament resonating inside the metal can.
You could try a different dimmer but it's usually caused by the bulbs.
 
  #18  
Old 01-15-17, 07:49 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thanks. I think the 8th light has the most noticeable humming as I just need to walk under it to hear it. The others, I hear when I climb up ladder and put my ear to it. The dimmer switch, (old or new) are noticeable if I put my ear to it.

Is it expected all dimmer switch will have some resonating sound? (Low volume sound , only could be hear if you put your ear next to it )

And also. The bulb I am using is the led bulb, do those bulb still have filaments?

Thanks
 
  #19  
Old 01-15-17, 08:35 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 29,711
Upvotes: 0
Received 15 Upvotes on 13 Posts
The bulb I am using is the led bulb, do those bulb still have filaments?
No. ..
 
  #20  
Old 01-15-17, 01:29 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Usa
Posts: 149
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Then why is there humming sound if there is no filaments?

Thanks
 
  #21  
Old 01-15-17, 01:35 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 29,711
Upvotes: 0
Received 15 Upvotes on 13 Posts
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: