Need help wiring new ceiling fan to old wiring

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-07-17, 03:04 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Need help wiring new ceiling fan to old wiring

Greetings, I have successfully hooked up 2 new ceiling fans to old wiring, but the third has me stumped. In one bedroom I had three black wires that I capped off together after I determined they were a switch loop. Two white wires that I connected to the white neutral and a white hot that I connected to the blue and black wires of the new fan and then of course connected the green to bare. It worked with no issues. The current bedroom has two black which I assumed were also a switch loop, a red that I capped off thinking maybe it was for use with an additional switch, one white (hot) that I hooked up the blue and black from the fan, and a second white hooked up to the white (neutral) of the fan, and again green to bare. When I turn it on, the light and fan come on but stay on in both the on and off switch position. I think I'm doing something wrong with the red wire, but couldn't find a solution when looking online. Any help would be appreciated!

Mrs. Esterman
 

Last edited by PJmax; 09-07-17 at 03:48 PM. Reason: highlighted actual problem
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-07-17, 03:26 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If I see a hot wire that is hot, I check to see if it's hot all the time or only when the switch is in the on position, especially if it's BX cable. In the days before Romex, white wires were likely to be in a switch loop.
 
  #3  
Old 09-07-17, 03:31 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 52,608
Received 339 Votes on 317 Posts
Welcome to the forums.

You have two cables. A three wire cable and a two wire cable.

It would be ideal to know which cable was carrying the always live there.

It would make more sense.....
that the blacks were connected together and capped.
the two white wires were connected and to the white of the fan.
the red goes to the fans black and blue.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 09-07-17 at 03:47 PM.
  #4  
Old 09-07-17, 04:04 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I did test the wires and one of the whites is hot in the on and off position. I marked it with black tape and it is the one I connected to the blue and black fixture wires. I know that I'm missing something here. Thanks for your help so far!
 
  #5  
Old 09-07-17, 04:24 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 52,608
Received 339 Votes on 317 Posts
With a switch loop.....the hot feed is sent to the switch on white and comes back on black.
Your home appears to have been wired backwards.

Did you check from the wires to the ground wire to find the live one ?
Which cable is that white wire in ?
 
  #6  
Old 09-07-17, 04:31 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is the white wire that you marked with black tape, which was the right thing to do BTW, the only hot wire that is hot all the time? If so & you connect it to the black & blue wires on the fan, there will be no wall switch control. The only control will be from the chains. It's strange to me that a white wire would be the only wire that's hot all the time but be that as it may. Using that wire, try to find the loop from the wall switch. That's where it should be connected. Then the other side of the loop goes to the blue & black wires. I hope that made sense.
 
  #7  
Old 09-07-17, 04:54 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 52,608
Received 339 Votes on 317 Posts
There should NEVER be a live white wire entering a box unless it's AT the switch box. The hot should leave the source box on a white wire and return on the black wire. To take it one step further... that white wire carrying the hot to the switch should be identified by taping black so that it is not confused as a neutral.

In this case since the white wire is not even switched.... there are other incorrect issues.
 
Attached Images  
  #8  
Old 09-07-17, 04:57 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hmmm. I am going to do more work to see if I can find the other side of the loop. The white wire that I marked with tape is the only hot all the time wire. If I find the other side of the loop, do I hook up the black and blue to that AND the hot white? Or just to the other side of the loop? And if it's to the other side of the loop, then what do I hook up the to the hot white? I really appreciate both of your help. I really don't want to call an electrician for something as small as a ceiling fan! Especially after I figured out the other two rooms! It's crazy to me that all three bedrooms have different wires coming out of the ceiling box!
 
  #9  
Old 09-07-17, 04:59 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 52,608
Received 339 Votes on 317 Posts
Your next step is to see what is happening at the switch.

You also didn't mention which cable the live white wire was contained in.
 
  #10  
Old 09-07-17, 05:07 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
White (hot) and a black are coming out of one cable and the other white, black and red are coming out of the other cable.

i tested the wires again and the hot is the only hot all the time wire. When tested with the other wires, the red is the only wire which is weak when the switch is off.
 

Last edited by Mrsesterman; 09-07-17 at 05:22 PM.
  #11  
Old 09-07-17, 05:39 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Are none of the other wires hot at any point in time, with the switch on or off? Is there a second switch nearby? It's too strange that a white wire is hot & the black wire from the same cable is never hot when you throw the switch.
 
  #12  
Old 09-07-17, 05:58 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
No others are hot by themselves with the power on or off. Maybe I need a more high speed tester.
 
  #13  
Old 09-07-17, 06:12 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 517
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Do what PJ suggested. Pull the switch & see what's there. I hope that there is no dimmer involved.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: