Mistakenly disconnected ceiling fan without knowledge

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Old 11-21-18, 11:48 PM
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Mistakenly disconnected ceiling fan without knowledge

Ok... I disconnected a ceiling fan to oil it. It was making a noise. Anyway, I didn't think to document each position of each wire. I'm sure you have heard all this before: However, here is my issue...

Two sets of black-white-bare copper wires coming from ceiling where fan goes. One goes to a set of two switches by the front door which also control the porch light, the other set is the supply and goes off into the darkness of my attic to unknown. With all wires disconnected some other items in the house do not work, i.e. air conditioner, light in another room...etc.

When I hook the wires up like a switch loop I get power to the porch light and the other items in the house as long as both switches are on but I got zero power to the fan. Both switches turn off the porch light singularly. When turning off both switches everything is off. Left (porch switch) on nothing comes on. Right (ceiling fan) switch on- other items in house on. Both switches on-porch light comes on and other items in house. Having one switch on will not turn on porch light.

Also, when first disconnecting the fan it seems that there was a single wire capped off. I believe it was the black but not for sure.

Also, One set of wires has a black and white only, the other is black white and bare copper if this helps...
Please Help. I am in over my head...

Thanks in Advance
Slayedkgl
 

Last edited by slayedkgl; 11-22-18 at 01:10 AM. Reason: remembered other information
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Old 11-22-18, 12:02 AM
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Welcome to the forums.

When you remove a light or in this case the fan..... only disconnect the wires that go directly to the light or fan. Don't open all the splices. There is no need for that.

You have 2) two wire w/gr. cables at the ceiling fan. If one cable goes to the switch....... the other one must be power in. You are missing something. There would need to be three cables or a two wire and a three wire cable.

Two cables cannot switch power to the fan and carry power on to another area.
 
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Old 11-22-18, 12:53 AM
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So when I connect the source black wire to the white wire of the other set, That is when all the rest of the house items start working again.
slayedkgl
 

Last edited by slayedkgl; 11-22-18 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 11-22-18, 12:56 AM
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See response to PJMaxx...
 

Last edited by slayedkgl; 11-22-18 at 01:02 AM. Reason: answered elsewhere
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Old 11-22-18, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PJmax View Post
Welcome to the forums.

When you remove a light or in this case the fan..... only disconnect the wires that go directly to the light or fan. Don't open all the splices. There is no need for that.

You have 2) two wire w/gr. cables at the ceiling fan. If one cable goes to the switch....... the other one must be power in. You are missing something. There would need to be three cables or a two wire and a three wire cable.

Two cables cannot switch power to the fan and carry power on to another area.
I think its just a source of power not carrying power to elsewhere. The other set of wires is for a the two switches. One for the fan and one for the porch light. It seems that if you used the switches to break the neutral alone it could work that way. If this is the case, the source of power for the porch light is elsewhere.

Just my thoughts.

slayedkgl
 
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Old 11-22-18, 06:04 AM
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Hi, how was the fan controlled before you took everything apart?
Geo
 
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Old 11-22-18, 07:10 AM
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Geochurchi's AvatarGeochurchi , Today 08:04 AM
Hi, how was the fan controlled before you took everything apart?
Geo

Two switches by front door one controlled all power to light/fan the other controlled porch light.
 
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Old 11-22-18, 07:28 AM
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Old 11-22-18, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
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Pardon me Ray2047... do you not read my post? I commented on the switch loop issue already. Thanks anyway.
 
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Old 11-22-18, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
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When I hook the wires up like a switch loop I get power to the porch light and the other items in the house as long as both switches are on but I got zero power to the fan. Both switches turn off the porch light singularly. When turning off both switches everything is off. Left (porch switch) on nothing comes on. Right (ceiling fan) switch on- other items in house on. Both switches on-porch light comes on and other items in house. Having one switch on will not turn on porch light.
 
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Old 11-22-18, 07:42 AM
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Actually I would like to make a correction. As of right now... I have the hot supply wire hooked to the white wire of the other pair... I have the white from the fan going to the white from the supply... I have the blue/black from the fan going to the black from the switch pair and I have the green from the fan connected to the bare ground wire from the supply line all connected to the box. I flipped the porch light switch and it came on without the other being on. Then when I flipped the fan/light switch it popped the breaker.
 
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Old 11-22-18, 08:13 AM
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What you have there sounds like something not done to accepted methods. Something a handyman would have done. Normally neutral is carried thru the same cable as the hot wire. I think what was done here is that there is another neutral loop thru that area.....hopefully on the same circuit. There probably should have been a three wire cable from the fan to the switches. The white would have been neutral.

That means you need to locate the cable that's hot in the ceiling. The white wire there is neutral for the fan. With the two wire cable going down to the switches....... one wire will bring hot down to the switches and one will return hot switched for the fan.
 
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Old 11-22-18, 08:16 AM
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I dont know if you read what I posted earlier but one wire was capped and taped with electrical tape and not connected to anything. I swear I think it was the black hot wire that is not what I am considering my supply wire...

This connection combo is of my design. I am sure it is not what was when I disconnected the fan. I am just trying to fix it and giving y'all a play by play basically hoping something will jog a memory someone has on what it should be.
 

Last edited by slayedkgl; 11-22-18 at 08:21 AM. Reason: added
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Old 11-22-18, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by PJmax View Post
What you have there sounds like something not done to accepted methods. Something a handyman would have done. Normally neutral is carried thru the same cable as the hot wire. I think what was done here is that there is another neutral loop thru that area.....hopefully on the same circuit. There probably should have been a three wire cable from the fan to the switches. The white would have been neutral.

That means you need to locate the cable that's hot in the ceiling. The white wire there is neutral for the fan. With the two wire cable going down to the switches....... one wire will bring hot down to the switches and one will return hot switched for the fan.
please read my edited reply above or below wherever it may be...
 
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Old 11-22-18, 08:36 AM
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picture

Ok in the picture the green circle is the fan wires (unconnected)
The yellow is the unconnected white from what I believe is the supply pair which is white, black, bare it is
The red circle is the only connection I have now which is the black from the supply pair to the white from the switch pair
the blue is the unconnected black wire from the switch pair
 
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Old 11-22-18, 08:45 AM
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You don't need to quote me. It makes the thread unnecessarily longer. I read every post in a thread.

Ok..... so look at what you have there. If the black wire was never connected that leaves you only two splices. The white and the white black splice. There can't be many choices of connection. Are you sure that the fan white and green weren't connected to the bare wire ? Because that is the only thing that makes sense now.
 
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Old 11-22-18, 08:59 AM
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more switch picts

This is what I found when I took the plate off just now. Yes the black with the red cap is by itself and capped off
 
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Old 11-22-18, 09:02 AM
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No sir, I am not sure of anything except that what is there is all that was there
so what should I do? Like talk me through it as if I know nothing about electricity. It's not far from the truth
I guess I should cap the black wire back off?

We've lived in this house for over twenty years. Its been like this for that long. Lucky we're not dead...
 
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Old 11-23-18, 04:35 AM
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Hi, that switch on the the right looks like a 3 Way, is there another switch somewhere else?
Geo
 
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