Two ceiling fans on same circuit not working


  #1  
Old 07-13-20, 11:39 AM
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Two ceiling fans on same circuit not working

I have a Big Ass Fans Haiku ceiling fan in each of two bedrooms that were working when installed by an electrician when my home was built 4 years ago. The two bedrooms are on the same 15amp circuit. All lights and outlets in the bedrooms are working and there is 120v at the breaker. Since the bedrooms are spares, the two ceiling fans haven't been energized in a few years. A few days ago, I tried turning them on, but nothing. So, I tested power to them and both are getting just .8v. Before I go tearing into all the outlets, or running lines to it directly from an outlet, I thought I'd ask the experts here for advice. What do you think? Thanks.

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Old 07-13-20, 12:23 PM
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Check from black to ground to see if you are missing hot or neutral.
If you see nothing from hot to ground.... you have an open hot wire.

If the fans were added later there may be a splice box in the attic.
You'll need to identify what is on that circuit. Then determine what is working and what is not.
The problem will be between a working location and a non working location.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 12:37 PM
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Hot to ground is 120v. Neutral to ground is 118v. This one 15A circuit supplies power to the recessed lighting, plugs and these two fans in both bedrooms and nothing else. All the lights and plugs are working.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 12:40 PM
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Ahhh...ok. Then you have an open neutral.
Probably going to be a splice in a box where a wire has fallen out of the splice.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 12:40 PM
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The two fans were installed in two pre established ceiling boxes put in when the home was constructed.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 12:45 PM
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Ok, I'll check the outlets and switches. Does this mean one neutral off a splice could knock out two ceiling fans in separate rooms?
 
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Old 07-13-20, 12:47 PM
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Ok.... so then the problem is one with original working. You need to determine how the fans are powered off that circuit. If there are switches..... the neutral will be spliced. I see a red wire in your picture. That probably means power comes in at the switch and is sent to the fan on a three wire cable.

You'll need to check the neutral splices in both fan switch boxes.

There is no miracle cure. It takes some good Sherlock Holmes detective work.
As an electrician we know how wiring is typically done. We know all circuits start at the panel. Usually the wiring forms a path from the panel to the last device. If you know all devices on a circuit.... you can usually determine where the problem is. It will be between the last working device and the closest non working device.

You were typing as I was. Yes.... an open neutral will affect everything after it.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 12:57 PM
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There are no wall switches that power either fan. The fans are turned on with a remote. Therefore, both red wires are capped.

There are only two not working devices, the ceiling fans. All the other devices on that circuit, lights, plugs and light switches are working.

So, one loose neutral wire can knock out two ceiling fans? It would be strange to have two wires come loose.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 01:36 PM
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There are no wall switches that power either fan. The fans are turned on with a remote. Therefore, both red wires are capped
Yes.... the red wires are capped but they are there as switch legs. If there are no switches then there is a junction box you need to find. In the picture we can see a single three wire cable.

Is the wiring in the other fan the same ?
 
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Old 07-13-20, 01:45 PM
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I don't think there is a junction box. I think wiring was run from an outlet to the ceiling mounting box in the photo. Only one 14/3 cable comes into the ceiling mounting box, so I think it's a home run from an outlet. Yes, both fans are wired the same.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 01:52 PM
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So each fan is wired from it's own receptacle or does it pick up power from one receptacle and share it in two rooms ?
Can we assume that the receptacles in the bedroom are not switched ?
 
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Old 07-13-20, 02:13 PM
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As I see only one cable going into the mounting box, I don't see how the fans are sharing power with any other devices, including another fan. So, since the only place for the fans to get power is from an outlet. There is only one switch in each bedroom and they control only the lights. Therefore all outlets are not switched.
 
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Old 07-13-20, 03:10 PM
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Then the problem should be fairly easy to find.
If the three wire cable goes from a receptacle to the fan in each room..... then that's where you need to check. I'm not sure why three wire cable was used. That makes no sense at all.
 
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Old 07-14-20, 06:56 AM
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I agree. On the circuit there are two Panasonic FV-08VRE1 fan/lights that are controlled with 2 switches each, one for the light, one for the fan, so maybe they had some left over cable.
A hunt'in I will go.
 
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Old 08-12-20, 12:04 AM
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Open neutral

I had a similar problem with bathroom lights not working. Check wiring from the nearest outlets. The neutral wire is probably loose. Mine was push in connection that became loose even though it looked good visually. Best to use the screw connectors on the outlets.
I learned the hard way after replacing 2 light fixtures and the switch.
good luck!
 
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Old 08-12-20, 08:12 AM
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Thanks, since the bedrooms aren't used I've decided to move this to a cold weather project. Too much to do right now.
 
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Old 10-30-20, 01:45 PM
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So, I've checked 4 outlets and didn't see a common wire off a terminal. Then because I have about 20 outlets more to check I had a thought. Wouldn't an outlet plug in circuit testor tell me if I have a common wire problem with the outlet? This would be much easier.
 
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Old 10-30-20, 04:13 PM
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I don't think there is a junction box. I think wiring was run from an outlet to the ceiling mounting box in the photo. Only one 14/3 cable comes into the ceiling mounting box, so I think it's a home run from an outlet. Yes, both fans are wired the same.
If that's how it was wired.... you should be able to see a red wire in the box with the receptacle.

I would severely doubt they ran a three wire to a receptacle. If they were just tapping power off a receptacle they'd use two wire cable. Since you only have a single three wire cable at each fan..... they would have had to tap power in two places.
 
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Old 10-30-20, 04:31 PM
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So, what are you saying? You didn't answer my question. There are no red wires in the outlets. Are you saying the problem is in a switch? There are no switches that control the fans. Both are operated by wireless remotes, but on the circuit there are lights and bath exhaust fans.
 
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Old 10-30-20, 08:00 PM
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A start would be to check all the receptacles for power but you need to use a two wire tester or meter. A non contact tester will show power but not a missing neutral.

My point is..... we don't know where those three wires cables are tied in. Wherever they are connected there will be a red wire in the box. If you look in a receptacle box and don't see a red wire.... it doesn't connect there.

Could it connect in a switchbox..... certainly. However you may see a red wire in the box that is being used as a switch leg. If you open switches up and see a red wire..... check the white wire/neutral splice connection for a loose wire.
 
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Old 10-31-20, 09:43 AM
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Ok, let me put it another way. Since this circuit testor can detect open nuetral wires in recepticals, can't I just use it on all the recepticals without having to open them to visually check the wires? Then I can check all switches with a red wire to see if there's a while common problem, correct?

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Old 10-31-20, 10:04 AM
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Yes..... that tester would work ok.
 
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Old 10-31-20, 11:04 AM
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Great, thanks. I've checked all the recepticals and they're ok, saving a hell of a lot of time. So, now is it correct to say that the problem is in a switch with a red wire where a white neutral is loose? Thanks for your patience.
 
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Old 10-31-20, 11:28 AM
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You confirmed the receptacles are working but not that there isn't a problem there. You could have a two wire feed in, a two wire feed out and your fan three wire. There will would be four white wires in a splice..... in, out, 3w and a tail to the receptacle. In that four wire splice..... the white wire to the fan may have slipped out. The fan would stop working but the receptacle would still work.

BUT..... the chances of a wire "slipping out" of a splice and affecting both fans is nil. You have two completely different three wire lines to your fans.

It would appear that both fan's three wire cables get their power from the same source. That would indicate that a splice box is involved where they both connect.

 
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Old 10-31-20, 12:24 PM
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No I'm confused. What exactly am I looking for? A 3 white wire spilce, a 4 white wire splice, or a switch with a red wire. Please speak as simply as possible, like you're talking to an idiot. In other words, what exactly would you do if this were your service call? Thanks.
 
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Old 10-31-20, 01:16 PM
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I have different equipment than most home owners.

I would use a fox and hound. It's a transmitter that clips onto the wiring and a receiver that you carry around and listen for its tone at every electrical box. Once I found where I hear the tone..... I'd open that box.

You have two separate three wire cables. One cable to each fan. Logically since both those cables are dead.... or are both missing neutral....they most likely terminate in the same box. That's why I mentioned a common splice box. Based on where these fans are..... that common box could be in an attic or the basement. It would be a place where you'd actually find 2) three wire cables and at least one additional two wire cable for power.

You said there are switches in these two rooms. What do those switches control ?
Usually if there is a fan..... there is no ceiling light and the switch controls the fan or a receptacle.
 
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Old 10-31-20, 02:48 PM
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This is a finished basement location, so there's no accessing above the ceiling.

There is only one switch in each bedroom with a fan and it's a light switch. Each of those bedrooms is connected to a bathroom where there are switches for lights and exhaust fans.
 
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Old 11-02-20, 07:23 PM
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So, any more ideas? I would really like this taken care of and I need precise recommendations. Thanks.
 
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Old 11-02-20, 07:35 PM
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The switches control an actual ceiling fixture ? I only ask because it's strange to have a light and fan.
I would look into those switch boxes. See if there is a red wire in there.

You may need to invest in a fox and hound like I previously mentioned.
There is no set way to wire. I've given you the typical locations where you may find the fan line.

Just one example of a tester. wire tester - fox and hound
Other than that I don't what else you can do to find the wiring.
Most of these are not designed to work on live circuits so you need to confirm the circuit is still dead before connecting at the fan. You would use the wand to follow the wiring thru the ceiling. You'd also take the receiver and go to every box. You will hear the tone as you get near the correct wire.
 
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Old 11-02-20, 07:49 PM
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The switches in the two bedrooms control only lights and there is only one switch per room. In the adjoining bathrooms to both bedrooms the switches control lights and exhaust fans.
 
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Old 11-03-20, 11:28 AM
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Yes, I have recessed led lights in the ceiling. The fans are operated only by a remote.

So, you're saying clip the fox and hound to the fan white common, then trace the wire to the nearest box with the circuit de energized?
 
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Old 11-03-20, 04:45 PM
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You would first test between black and white to confirm circuit is dead. Clip the tone generator on to white and black. It needs to be on two wires to tone correctly.

Then try to find a box where the tone is heard.
DON'T open that box until you disconnect the tone generator.

The model I use can be used on a live circuit. It's very expensive.
Most of the basic units can't be used on a live circuit.
 
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Old 11-03-20, 06:45 PM
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I've already tested at the fan. This from my first post:

"I have a Big Ass Fans Haiku ceiling fan in each of two bedrooms that were working when installed by an electrician when my home was built 4 years ago. The two bedrooms are on the same 15amp circuit. All lights and outlets in the bedrooms are working and there is 120v at the breaker. Since the bedrooms are spares, the two ceiling fans haven't been energized in a few years. A few days ago, I tried turning them on, but nothing. So, I tested power to them and both are getting just .8v. Before I go tearing into all the outlets, or running lines to it directly from an outlet, I thought I'd ask the experts here for advice. What do you think? Thanks."

When you say test to make sure the circuit is dead, do you mean flipping the breaker?



 
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Old 11-03-20, 07:04 PM
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You had said the fans were dead. I just wanted you to make sure they were still dead. If it's an intermittent problem.... they could have started working again without you knowing. The basic tone generators will fry if connected to power.

If you know what circuit the fans are on.... make sure to turn it off but I don't remember you saying you knew which circuit they were on.
 
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Old 11-03-20, 07:26 PM
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Yes, I know what circuit the two fans are on and they're the same. The fans have been dead since I started the thread, per my first post.

So, flip the breaker on that circuit, then put the clips on the white and black per my first photo, then tone each outlet, light switch and exhaust switch. Those are the only two kinds of switches there are. To tone the boxes and switches I don't have to remove the covers, I just hold the probe on the outside of the box?
 
 

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