Recessed LED's blowing

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  #1  
Old 10-03-20, 09:59 AM
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Recessed LED's blowing

Hello

Have 9 recessed lights above kitchen. Right now 4 of the LED's are still working after about 6 months or so. I just used the last LED to replace one of the 4 and a CFL for another as a test. probally not good to mix. The existing LED's are 'not for totally enclosed luminaries". Ecosmart 19A 13W/1500lumens/100watt equal. But these are sort of opened in a Hallo H99RT fixture. Will post pic form phone. So first question is:

1) Do some open fixtures still require the 'enclosed rated led's". They can definitly handle the heat better, so i plan to buy some and try them. To try in the other two fixtures with burned lights
2) Based on some or one of the posts i see here, even a certified electrian has trouble defining the exact reason. As one post said the tech came back like 2 or 3 times. Probally takes special equipment to exactlly define the issue.

Tried to measure voltage at receptacle, and that was a "no go" as I blew the breaker. i think you need a special fixture to do it or Pull down the fixture. Or really steady hands up in those recessed fixtures

I noticed that two black wires (or two wiring branches) where in the same 15A breaker with the LED's. So I moved the LED branch to a dedicated breaker 15A. Although its a tandem breaker, not the greatest choice. So maybe that was it. So I just eliminated about 5 or 6 other lights from the LED circuit breaker. On of them was even in the garage. So hopefully that was it.

Will see how this test goes and if the 'enclosed rated LED's" are the answer. Alhough maybe my test is corrupted cause I still have two CFL's in the 9 light bank.

Thanks for any insights







<img src="https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.doityourselft.com-vbulletin/2000x1504/491b26cc_062f_42ae_a5eb_f78a5e807d91_7801ac3580bbb200e3868079303c708e44736b44.jpeg" width="1128" height="1504"/>
Not really so Open
 

Last edited by TimsBoynton; 10-03-20 at 10:09 AM. Reason: TYPO
  #2  
Old 10-03-20, 10:25 AM
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The problem LED bulbs have is dissipating the heat from the power supply in the base and the LED itself. Installing the bulb "base end up" like it is in a can concentrates all the heat at the can end.

You might want to consider replacing the bulb with an upgrade LED plate that replaces the ring with an integrated LED panel and ring.
 
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Old 10-03-20, 12:40 PM
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Hello PJ max

Thanks for the reply. I googled the below terms, but comes up with things that look nothing like I have.

Are you talking about a specific type of bulb that is rated for a enclosed fixture? Or Some kind of plate in addition to the LED bulb itself ?

Quote:
ou might want to consider replacing the bulb with an upgrade LED plate that replaces the ring with an integrated LED panel and ring.

Just to be clear, reg incandescent bulbs where orginally used, then we went to CFL's and now where using LED bulbs. None of the bulbs last as long as they are supposed to. But the LED's do last the loongest
 
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Old 10-03-20, 02:05 PM
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They are called retrofits. Example of one in the link. There are others.

Halo 4" LED retrofit
 
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Old 10-03-20, 04:06 PM
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Hello PJ Max

Thanks for the link. Just to be clear:

1)This fixture in the link has improved heat dissipation over the Hallo H99RT? Cause its dimable? This one shows the socket to plugs into a existing fixture. I assumed you would remove the existing Hallo and put this other fixture in its place? In that case you just throw out the cable with the light socket on the end?

OH, according to the below video (in link below), it looks like you throw the existing socket out and use the LED socket that comes with the new fixture. Cause it comes with its own type of LED bulb. So if this light goes out you gotta replace the fixture and the bulb? I am not familiar with this type. AND HOPE that it all fits in the existing housing

2) You do not consider that changing to LED bulbs rated for closed fixtures will work? Right now I have open but they do not look that open too me. As per picture. This would be a easier solution then changing fixtures.

3) If all three types of bulbs are burning out (Incandesent, CFL and LED), is that a indicator that it may not be a heat dissapation problem and maybe something with the wiring?

Or will I just need to test and see what happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oCX_ZBga5A
 

Last edited by TimsBoynton; 10-03-20 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 10-03-20, 04:44 PM
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What I linked to is a replacement trim with the LED's attached. The trim itself dissipates the heat.
The cord and Edison adapter screw into the existing bulb location in YOUR can.
Basically no installation involved.

I don't have the patience to play musical bulbs.
 
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Old 10-03-20, 04:52 PM
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This fixture in the link has improved heat dissipation over the Hallo H99RT? Cause its dimable?
No, not because it is dimmable, but because it is designed to be installed in a can fixture. The installation is similar to the video you linked. You do not get rid of the existing socket, you use the socket adapter that is included with the LED trim.

You do not consider that changing to LED bulbs rated for closed fixtures will work?
I have seen very few LED lamps that are rated for enclosed fixtures and even if they say they are designed for recessed cans their life span may be shortened.

If all three types of bulbs are burning out (Incandesent, CFL and LED), is that a indicator that it may not be a heat dissapation problem and maybe something with the wiring
There are very few wiring issues that will shorten the life of a lamp. Most often it is something like vibration to the fixture from heavy walkers, slamming doors, the wrong type of dimmer, or serious low voltage (brownout) .
 
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Old 10-03-20, 05:24 PM
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Hello

Thanks guys for the clarifcations

I was not fully clear on my use of the word dimiable. I guess Dimable does not necessarily mean Closed fixture rated. Most of the lights on amazon say Dimable, but do not clarify closed or open. And since dimable LED's are supposed to be more ruggard then non dimable I was speculating that when they say Dimiable maybe they also mean closed fixture rated. Proablly not. I found some that say closed rated, they are only 15 Bucks for 4.

I have been dealing with these lights for many years. Most do last a few months. At first glance I was not sure the retrofit ones would fit. Or maybe they are all standard for A19? . I guess i will need to chk all the dimensions from the link. and read up more on these retro fit kit LED's. that may be what I need to do in the long term.

Looks like the Hallo retrofit light kit should just fit. I got 4.25" to where the existing socket starts. And the Fixture in the Kit requires 3.25" for the light and some unkown dim for that socket adapter. They do not tell ye that. As long as the socket adapter does not stick out of the existing socket by more then a inch it should fit. The closed rated LED's would be cheaper, if it works. 33$ to $ 200 for the 9 places. You did say it would be a upgrade. The retro fit kit does read like a better way to go.



Thanks for the feedback




 

Last edited by TimsBoynton; 10-03-20 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 10-03-20, 09:05 PM
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Pretty much any 4" LED trim will fit a 4" nominal can.
 
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Old 10-04-20, 07:54 PM
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For what it's worth, I would always get a retrofit kit these days. They are better built than the LED bulbs and though they are a bit more expensive, it's replacing the trim ring on the cans, so you get a more modern look too.
 
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Old 10-05-20, 11:22 AM
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Yes the retro looks like the better way to. Do they replacement bulbs, or do you buy a new kit when they go


I already bought the bulbs. But I may buy one kit and chk it out before I do all 9. Will see how long each lasts. The open can rated ledís have been lasting anywhere from 3 or 2 months to over 1.5 years.

 
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Old 10-31-20, 05:29 AM
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The Enclosed rated LED did not work

Hello
Just a Update. The enclosed rated LED's did not even last as long as the non rated ones. ?? Installed 3 and 1 of them lasted less then a month. So much for that BRIGHT idea.

Next step is too buy one of them retrofit LED kits and see how it fits.

So most of you guys are right. Retro is the way to go.

The light above the frig is usually the first to go. Maybe the cold air when opening the door. But cold air should sink. So maybe the extra heat from the Frig motors

Thanks again for the info.
 
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Old 10-31-20, 07:31 AM
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Hi, none of these LED lamps get close to the rated life, retro fit kit is the best option as stated.
Geo🇺🇸
 
 

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