Need Help wiring a manual preheat 22W Circline fixture

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Old 01-13-21, 08:04 AM
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Need Help wiring a manual preheat 22W Circline fixture

I got a switch over a month ago for a lamp I got on from another member on this forum (Thank You Norm201!)
It was going to be tossed because the switch failed (I probably think the switch was fine it was the ballast that failed it smelt horrible and was all black looking also tested shorted to the metal case the included lamp had no filaments left) the switch was missing and not included however I did get the 4 pin lamp connector.
My new switch is a Leviton 388 it has two blue and two black wires the socket has two black and two white.

The wires from the bottom where the ballast is are white black and green (which obviously is ground each end has a ring crimped on it and it connects with the other green grounds from the power cord and receptacle).

The old and very fried ballast was also connected to the white neutral which was wrong (but probably not what caused it's smelly demise) I have a different ballast an Advance LC-25-TP That is already wired in the ballast box in the lamps base this time on the black hot wire like the other one should have been I just need help with the switch & socket wiring in the lamp head where the bulb goes. I have a small collection of FC8T9 lamps that I can use since the included one was toasted by a dead ballast

I know wire color sometimes mean nothing (color is not always "standard" specifically with ballasts as I don't thing there is a "standard" other then the mains power input wires) so can someone please make a diagram or a drawing?

I do know the standard preheat wiring but since both ends are in the same place I'm having trouble visualizing this plus I never wired a manual starter before only the "automatic" ones with the glass glow bottle inside a two pin plastic or metal case

The package has no information other then "must be installed in accordance with NEC or local codes" which is not helpful if they don't say how as this is not a normal switch if it was this would be done already

Thank You
 
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Old 01-13-21, 09:32 PM
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There is no difference between manual "push to start" and an automatic starter as far as the circuit is concerned. The starter merely acts as a self-closing switch and the push switch would be wired in exactly like the starter would be. Notably a manual switch also has on/off capability in addition to start, so while your pair of leads or terminals for the starter function are the same you'll have a pair for on/off as well. You'll need to figure out what's what, which should be easy enough by checking for continuity in the various switch positions.

Likewise, the circline would be wired like a linear tube. Just imagine you cut the lamp in half and could stretch it out. Much like the switch vs. starter, it's only a cosmetic difference. The circuit is the same.

Is this a desk lamp by chance? The neutral configuration you describe is often used when a switch is located in the head and the ballast is in the base. This scheme is found in this style of light because it allows the switch to be on hot as it should be while keeping the number of wires to a minimum (no need to loop up and down for the switch). I guess you could alternatively go from hot to the ballast then up to the switch, but then ballast is always live and for a dual-tube light it'd still require more wires. Anyway, that's all to say I've seen desk lamp manufactures deviate from the "standard" wiring scheme to fit better with the way the components are physically located in the fixture.
 
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Old 01-13-21, 10:15 PM
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All right, here is a diagram which I believe matches the lamp you describe. Bear with me, it's a bit crude and not standard in any way, so you'll want to verify everything, but I believe it is roughly correct for your situation though the colors may be different. I included two possible locations for a ballast. A third I didn't note would be on the hot line before the switch. I suppose with a single-tube light with only one ballast, that'd be an option as well.
 
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Last edited by pjcpc1; 01-13-21 at 10:27 PM. Reason: additional note
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Old 01-13-21, 11:16 PM
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The lamp is a 22W FC8T9 Circline the ballast is in the base along with a standard receptacle the switch is in the head along with the lamp there are only three wires from the ballast going to the lamp head black, white, and green which has a ring terminal to the metal case and I know green is ground so they are all connected to the metal lamp body at the top and bottom ballast box. I have 8 wires total 4 from the switch 4 from the socket two from the ballast box the white neutral is wired straight through from the line cord the black lead is attached to the ballast.
 
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Old 01-14-21, 01:00 PM
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You're going to need to define switch. You said it's four wires. How does it work ?
OFF-ON-MOMENTARY ....... that would be a power switch with starting.
Posting a picture of the switch would probably help.
 
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Old 01-14-21, 04:58 PM
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Switch picture

You're going to need to define switch. You said it's four wires. How does it work ?
OFF-ON-MOMENTARY ....... that would be a power switch with starting.
Posting a picture of the switch would probably help.
Press & hold to preheat the lamp filaments release the lamp lights fully press once more the lamp turns off another press & hold repeat and so on


Front & back of switch & package

I did not want to open it yet just in-case I bought the wrong type as once opened I can't return it it has two blue and two black wires and it mounts in a 1/8 IPS (3/8" hole I think?) hole and secures with the locknut on top on the switch.
 
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Old 01-14-21, 06:06 PM
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@CircuitBreaker, do you see any significant deviations between my diagram and what you have? I bet the black leads are for power and the blue leads are for the starter. Black is the more typical color, so it'd make sense for it to be used for the primary function of the switch while the blue would be for the special purpose of starting. Of course that's only a guess. You could confirm with a multimeter, or simply try it and see. If you reverse them, start would still begin preheating given that both pairs will be closed, but releasing the switch from the start position will cut power and the lamp won't light. You could alternatively wire it to something simple such as an incandescent lamp to test it.
 
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Old 01-14-21, 06:17 PM
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So I can wire an incandescent lamp in series with the blue leads and if they are the starter terminals the lamp will stay lit as long as I hold the button down correct and just so I'm sure I do have the correct switch as once I can't return it any more.
 
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Old 01-14-21, 06:24 PM
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Right, when hooked up to the starting leads it should stay lit only when pressed down & held. Everything I see suggests this is the correct switch. On the power leads, it'd work like an ordinary on/off switch, remaining on until you press it again. I'd hate to be wrong and have you be out whatever it cost, but it looks exactly like what I'd expect.
 

Last edited by pjcpc1; 01-14-21 at 06:25 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 01-14-21, 06:37 PM
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Thank You yes it was not cheap (it was $21.99 + tax) so this is why I want to absolutely make sure I got the correct one. A 25W appliance lamp is fine right? just enough to see if I have the right wires and have it be obvious enough that I can see it lit with all of the other lights I have lit
 
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Old 01-14-21, 06:53 PM
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If you have a multimeter that'd probably be the fastest, but yeah anything not way outside the voltage or power range the switch is designed to operate in should be fine for a test.
 
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Old 01-14-21, 06:56 PM
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multimeter
I forgot about that mine will beep for continuity so if I have the right pair it will beep as long as the button is held down so easy test I'll post back after I do the wiring.

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-17-21, 07:02 PM
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If you have a multimeter that'd probably be the fastest, but yeah anything not way outside the voltage or power range the switch is designed to operate in should be fine for a test.
OK the blue wires are the starter part but one problem I hold it and it preheat the filaments but if I release the switch all of the way the lamp goes out EX: I press all of the way down it preheats release it the lamp goes out press it the filaments preheat release part way the lamp stays lit all of the way. Do I have a defective switch? It seem to be wired correct.
 
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Old 01-20-21, 08:39 PM
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So if I understand correctly, the lamp remains lit until you fully release the switch, at which point it extinguishes? Does this happen every time? Make sure all of your connections are good, and maybe try letting the switch up slower or faster and see if that makes a difference. Going back to your multimeter, you could check how moving from start to on (released) affects the black leads. I actually have an old fluorescent desk lamp I rarely use which has an issue similar to what you describe. The switch is from the 1940s and I presume it's a bit corroded. It seems to work better if I only press it the bare minimum needed to preheat, and release it from there. The less it moves the less likely it is to result in a momentary interruption.
 
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Old 01-20-21, 09:06 PM
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Sorry I did not post back sooner anyway it turns out my cheap China made FC8T9 had an open filament (Cathode) and me holding the button was enough to make it light got my trusty USA made GE one and all is fine look at that lamp no low mercury content in this one.
The lamp set unused for almost 2 years because I could not find that switch at a reasonable price.

The cheap lamp was a tester just in case I mis-wired it and blew the cathodes.



 
 

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