Troubleshooting a 4-way switch circuit that I "broke"
Last week I took a perfectly-working 4-way circuit and rendered it non-working by changing only the 4-way switch. We're doing some kitchen remodeling and I'm using those flat decorator-style switches. Since they're all in different rooms, I decided to only change out the 4-way in the kitchen. I read and watched videos about how easy it is to do, so I bought a 4-way switch and got to work - 5 days ago.
First I wasn't able to tell for sure which 3-way was first and which was last in the circuit. There is SUCH a jam of spray-painted wires in my switch boxes from when the house was built and the kitchen was first painted 27 years ago, that I wasn't sure which bundle of wires came in or went to the line and load sides. The neutrals are all twisted together with giant wire nuts and the ground wires are twisted together into their own bundle, and both bundles are shoved into the back of the boxes. Some cables come in (or go out) of places in the box that I can't even see. I finally decided the box farthest from the panel would probably be first in the circuit. At least it gave me a place to start. When I installed the new 4-way switch, I was only able to get it to work if the 3-way switches were in certain positions. The only thing I changed was the 4-way switch.
So, I took ALL the switches off and checked every wire with a non-contact voltage detector pen, to find out which was the black line wire. When I turned the power back on, instead of having only one hot wire, all BUT one of them was hot, a black wire in one of the 3-way boxes. I thought I'd only find one hot wire, not nine. I can't figure out how to connect the wires to the switches now, since all but one is hot. So I'm out of ideas, and ready to put everything back together and just deal with having to go from switch to switch to turn the lights on and off.
Before I tear out the rest of my hair, can you help me fix this? Thanks in advance for any assistance.
The 3-way switches have to be in certain positions for a 4-way switch to turn On or Off the load.
There's four possible ways or stages!
Likewise, the 4-way (crossover) switch is wired in the middle of the two 3-way switches, and it too has to be in a certain position for the 3-way switches to turn On or Off the load.
You didn't break anything. It's all good!
4-Way switched circuit with the load at the end of the run.
Non-contact voltage testers are only good for a quick check to see if there are ANY hot wires in a box. They are not very good for troubleshooting. For that, you need an actual volt meter.
When using 4 way switches you have to check how they function. Some will work like the one in Kooter's picture where you connect each set of travelers to each side of the switch while in others you connect one set of travelers to the top screws and the other to the bottom screws. Again, you need a meter to figure this out.
The easiest way to troubleshoot this is to find which 3 way the power comes from. That hot wire will go onto the common screw of the first 3 way switch. The traveler wires will go onto the other two screws of the 3 way switch. It doesn't matter which traveler goes to which screw, it is just one per screw.
Next, figure out each pair of travelers in the 4 way box. They should be in the same cable or conduit. Connect the two groups by the results you found testing how the 4 way switch works.
In the last 3 way box the two travelers should be in the same cable or conduit. The travelers will connect to the brass colored screws of the switch. The wire that goes to the light(s) (switch leg) will connect to the common screw of the 3 way switch.
GridSser - I know this is probably confusing to you and it's hard to wrap your head around what needs to be done.
First and foremost, remember that you're working with only three total switches - two 3-ways and one 4-way. Know that the lone 4-way switch will not work without two 3-way switches.
A 4-way switch has 2 BRASS 'IN' terminals and 2 BLACK 'OUT' terminals. They may be identified on the back of the switch with the words 'IN' & 'OUT' identified by pair as 'INPUT' or 'OUTPUT'. Regardless, the 4-way switch's 'IN' & 'OUT' screw terminals are easily identified. (See images of the 4-way brass and black screws & the back side of the 4-way switch with INPUT and OUTPUT markings.)
The 2 traveler wires from one of the 3-way switches are to be connected to the 2 'IN' screws or if you wish connect them to the 2 'OUT' screws - take your pick because it makes no difference - (but, NEVER connect one traveler to 'IN' and the other traveler to 'OUT'.) Now that you have the travelers for one 3-way wired to the 4-way, now the 2 traveler wires from the other 3-way switch needs to be connected to whichever 'IN"' or 'OUT' terminals you did not choose to connect that previous 3-way to. In other words, if you connected the first 3-way travelers to the 4-way 'IN' terminals, then you'll connect the travelers from the second 3-way to the 'OUT' terminals. Easy-peasy!
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Hi All (I have two related questions regarding replacing a switch),
[b][u]Question 1[/u][/b] - I am trying to replace an old mechanical switch with a motion sensing one in the garage. The garage has two switches to control one set of ceiling lights (a switch on the wall with the garage door, and a switch on the wall with the pass-thru door to the house). I assume this is a 3-way switch (right?). I went to Home Depot and the gentleman there picked out some "Beyond Bright" bulbs for me, along with a Lutron MS-OPS2H-WH switch ([url]https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Motion-Sensor-Switch-2-Amp-Single-Pole-White-MS-OPS2H-WH-MS-OPS2H-WH/203202128[/url]). I never actually looked at the packaging the gentleman handed me, I just assumed it was the correct switch (I had told him that I needed a 3-way capable switch).
So, it turns out that the switch I ended up purchasing is NOT a 3-way switch. However, I'm wondering if I can still use it. Like I said, I have two wall switches that control the lights, and I only want to replace one of them. I would be fine with never touching the other switch again (meaning, I don't really need to control the lights from two places as long as motion will turn the lights on). If I simply leave the old switch in the "on" position forever, and I allow the new switch to control the lights through motion, can I use the MS-OPS2H-WH that I just bought? (And, if so, how do I wire it?)
[b][u]Question 2[/u][/b] - I removed the old switch I'm replacing from the wall, and the wires inside the wall are apparently really old. There are lots of wires inside the box from what I can tell, but the three wires that were attached to the old switch appear to be solid (not stranded) copper (I'm assuming copper and not aluminum because they are orangish-blackish, not shiny silver). Instead of standard insulation covering, all three wires are covered in a mesh fabric-type covering that seems to be starting to shred a bit near the "stripped" part of the wire - there are no differences in color for the three. There is also a very copper ground wire that was tucked into the box but which was not used. So - I'm assuming the three wires are the equivalent of a black wire, a red wire, and a white wire, but how do I know which was which? I can (maybe) recall which wire was attached where on the old switch, but the old switch is so old that the screws on it all appear to be the same color and there is no writing on the old switch. I do have a simple voltage tester if that helps ([url]https://www.gardnerbender.com/en/p/GET-3100/Twin-Probe-Circuit-Tester[/url]).
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you.
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09-24-23, 10:40 AM
