What Kind of weld?

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  #1  
Old 07-15-05, 01:17 PM
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What Kind of weld?

Hello i am new to the gokart scene. I have gotten ideas from many websites and am designing my gokart right now. but one question keeps coming up, what kind of welding equipment do i need? Should i use ARC, MIG, or Brazing? By the way this will be an offroad cart and i will most likely be really rough on it.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-15-05, 03:54 PM
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either ARC or MIG. if you do a search on this site, i have posted in the past answering to a man asking which kind of welder to buy. search for "which welder" perhaps. a good arc welder is my first choice though it is hard to reach some places or weld small metal. if you do not have easy access to a 220 ( i think? or is it 210?) volt outlet, then a 110 volt mig would be the way to go. both have pros and cons. both will hold up very well to alot of abuse.. i broke so many bolted frame parts on my old go-kart that i just started to weld stuff up instead of bolting it back. i used arc welder (or stick welder) on most of the stuff that take most abuse. though a mig welder will most certainly get the job done. also with the mig welder is the option of gas vs. flux core wire. the gas bottle is more expensive but makes a nice, "from-the-factory" look weld. good luck!
 
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Old 07-15-05, 04:04 PM
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So as I dont care about a pretty looking weld then i guess i'll go with an ARC welder. Thanks mancoowner, that saves me some money cause i have old buddy that can lend me his ARC welder.
 
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Old 07-15-05, 07:47 PM
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that arc welder will get the job done! and in my mind is easier to use in certain situations, and is stronger (though there is probably no difference in strenght between the two). good luck!
 
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Old 07-15-05, 08:25 PM
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haloboy84, With all due respect to mancoowner, I am assuming you are as new to welding as you are to gocarts. Arc welding is (in MY opinion) much stronger than MIG. The problem is when you need to weld thin material. A MIG welder will get into the small areas and weld where an Arc weld will burn through and melt the material..A newbie to welding will certainly be better at welding with MIG than he will Arc. You can make an Arc weld LOOK good, but break as soon as any pressure is put on it. Take some of the material you will be welding to your Buddies place and do a few welds. It is a shame to cut material to exacting lengths and then blow holes in it with the wrong heat setting. Not trying to discourage you but just forewarn you before you get too excited with Arc welding your cart. Good luck.
 
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Old 07-15-05, 09:51 PM
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thanks majakdragon. Your right i am new to all this. I am a carpenter so welding is new to me. Thanks for the tip about trying out the metal first. I'll definitely be
following any advise that prevents any headaches down the road. Though correct me if i'm wrong, but couldnt i just lower the amps setting or what ever to keep from melting thru thinner metals? Or will the welder settings only go so low before its no longer feasbile to use a certain gauge metal?
I plan on using 1" sqaure steel tubing for the bottom frame and either 7/8" or 1" round steel tubing for the rest of the cart. I've read that aluminum is to weak for this kind of setup, dont want this thing folding up on me.
 
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Old 07-15-05, 10:00 PM
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For not being a welder, you seem pretty savvy to the terminology. The thickness of the tubing is the key. An Arc welder will only go so far down in Amps before it causes a problem striking an arc or welding with it. As an "old timer" I welded anything under 2" pipe with a torch. I have been State Certified as a pipe welder for years. You can take welding rod and knock off the flux and weld it with a torch and make a strong and pretty weld. Penetration is the key you are looking for. A weld by Arc that is low amperage does not penetrate the metal. thus, weak weld. Once you test your material, you will see what I mean. Post back with any other questions. Good luck.
 
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Old 07-15-05, 10:09 PM
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I'm no welder but i've been around them some. i cant ermember if the steel is .95 or .095 thick. .095 sounds like paper thin so i am guessing its the .95 stuff, so you think that thick of steel would do alright or should i go with some thing thicker?
 
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Old 07-15-05, 10:20 PM
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The thickness of the material only has to be sufficient for the usage. a gocart frame does not have to be heavy but to weld it, you need the proper equipment. I would use a MIG for the thinner metal. It's easier to use, and gives the strong weld you need. While I am a fan of Arc welding, i have to give the MIG it's place. It does the job for thinner metals and will give the strength you need. Fighting an ARC welder is a pain you really don't need.
 
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Old 07-17-05, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by majakdragon
haloboy84, With all due respect to mancoowner, I am assuming you are as new to welding as you are to gocarts. Arc welding is (in MY opinion) much stronger than MIG. The problem is when you need to weld thin material. A MIG welder will get into the small areas and weld where an Arc weld will burn through and melt the material..A newbie to welding will certainly be better at welding with MIG than he will Arc. You can make an Arc weld LOOK good, but break as soon as any pressure is put on it. Take some of the material you will be welding to your Buddies place and do a few welds. It is a shame to cut material to exacting lengths and then blow holes in it with the wrong heat setting. Not trying to discourage you but just forewarn you before you get too excited with Arc welding your cart. Good luck.
point taken. didn't think of that. thanks for the fix/advise!!

 
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Old 07-18-05, 01:51 PM
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I hate to tell you all but i am pretty sure seeing how i have researched it and asked many peolpe. ALL WELDING IS ARC WELDING. If you have never noticed, that bright blue light that shows up when you weld is called and arc. You are using that arc to weld or mate the material together.
 
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Old 07-18-05, 05:40 PM
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I made a go kart and i used a stick welder, these welds are stronger than MIG. I am rough on my go kart and it has no broken yet.
 
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Old 07-18-05, 05:44 PM
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speeddrivenkid, Go to a welding dealer and ask to see an Arc welder.Unless you state that you want a Mig or Tig, he is only going to show you Stick welders. Maybe not politically correct but thats what stick welders are usually called. Then theres Mig and Tig. By the way, Acetylene welding isn't ARC welding.
 
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Old 07-19-05, 08:42 AM
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That maybe what it is in your regular persons vocabulary but to tell you the truth and facts all welding is arc welding.
 
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Old 07-19-05, 06:36 PM
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Speed, Do you know what Acetylene welding is??? Sorry, NO ARC. I actually shouldn't be answering this way but after 30 years of welding, I think I know a little about it.
 
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Old 07-19-05, 07:25 PM
triton
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in my (limited) experiance MIG welding is very easy and quite strong. of course i havent welded a whole lot so im certianly no expert.
 
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Old 07-19-05, 08:52 PM
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majakdragon, please explain to me what Acetylene welding is. or PM me with it. thanks.

 
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Old 07-22-05, 06:35 AM
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same goes for me.
 
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Old 08-18-05, 02:17 PM
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arc and oxy-acetylene

the difference between an arc and oxy acetylene is that oxy-acetylene uses a flame as the source of heat to fuse the two metals (which is usually used for thin metals like sheet metal), but arc welding uses an electric current, and is generally used for larger material. the reason they call it arc welding is because it uses an electric "arc" to weld the stick, or mig wire.
 
  #20  
Old 08-29-05, 04:35 PM
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None of the welds are stronger than another assuming there is correct filler, correct penetration, and Multiple passes where needed.

You can MIG (metal Inert gas... GMAW) weld the frame or stick weld it. Mig is easier to learn, and metal prep is also very important in getting a good mig weld. Stick welding is good for welding metal that is a litte rusty or dirty. The thing about MIG is that you can get a weld that looks great but holds like crap because your just laying down filler wire with no penetration.

Have soembody who knows what they are doing weld your frame.

Jim
 
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Old 08-29-05, 05:43 PM
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kartracer55
Where did you get your info on stick welding? I agree that you can use 6011 or 6013 welding ROD for dirty or rusted welding, farmers do it all the time. You'll never see a weld that is going to be x-rayed that isn't cleaned first and nothing but clean metal to be welded on. Been doing State Certified pipe welds for years.
 
  #22  
Old 08-29-05, 09:19 PM
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Im speakin generally here
 
  #23  
Old 08-30-05, 03:57 AM
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I only asked due the possibility of a non-welder picking up your comment and taking it as fact. We try to give the best info here so I had to interject. One other point is that the only pipe I have seen Mig used on is for outdoor signs. There must be something to that thinking as Mig would certainly be faster for Pipefitters to do than stick.
 
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Old 09-27-05, 03:30 PM
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So you wanna be a welder eh?

The secrets to a good weld is not so much what type of machine you use, but more of an understanding of necessary things you must do before any arc is struck or torch is lit.

#1 You must practice laying down weld and burn up several pounds of wire or electrodes on scrap steel before you try to weld something like a gokart frame. That is just for safety reasons and good common sense.

#2 most people probably won't do #1 so ALWAYS use grinders or wire wheels or even sandpaper to make sure that the pieces being welded are CLEAN!! Free of rust, dirt, paint, etc.

#3 You must use the proper size and rated and position wire/electrode/rod for the type of metal being fused as well as its intended purpose. An example; the electrodes that you have out in the shed are 6013 and 1/8th inch. The 60 is the strength of the filler metal. it means that it took at least 60,000 psi of pressure to pull 2 pieces of mild steel apart that had been fused with that electrode. the 13 means its used for "general" welding of mild steel and can be used in all positions. (for a gokart I would use 7018 low hydrogen flux )

#4 bevel your thicker pieces so you get full penetration and make multiple passes to fill the joint completely.

#5 Always slag your welds before you start the next pass and at start and stop points.


It probably doesn't matter which process you use if you are just building a kart to putt around the neighborhood.But here are some of the advantages of wire (flux cored or mig) ; you can weld continuously without haveing to stop and get a new rod just when you finally got it to flow well. also with wire as long as you go slow enough to get good penetration you will probably get a stronger weld. the reason is that the wire really concentrates the heat of the arc to reletively small areas where the weld is happening. where as the stick process heats a big area all the way around the joint. So when you heat the base metals red hot to fuse them, like it or not, you are weakening the steel at the same time. you will get 211 wire if you buy it at home depot or lowes or ace , which is fine and sufficient for the job. The advantages of stick are that stick machines are all over the classifieds for cheap. a wide variety of filler metal is available everywhere, and you can even weld sheetmetal with stick contrary to what many have told you. (Go to a welding supply and get 1/16 inch 6013 and you can weld sheetmetal till the cows come home.)

Well that ought to get you going. The most important thing is to practice, practice, practice and get some time under the hood before you try welding a gokart. I would hate for you or your kid or a neighbor kid to jump on a kart and zip down the street at bout 35 or 40 and have a weld snap. That would ruin everyones day. Be safe
 
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