Volusia not starting!

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  #1  
Old 09-02-05, 06:47 PM
suzukigrl
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Volusia not starting!

I tried to start my bike a few days ago and it wouldn't turn over. I charged the battery and tried again. It sounded like it wanted to turn over but didnt. So, I took a look at the spark plugs and they were completely black. I believe this means the bike is running with a rich mixture. But even with new spark plugs in place, the bike still wouldn't turn over. Is the problem dirty carbs? Maybe a starter problem? No fuel getting to engine? Help!
 
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  #2  
Old 09-02-05, 08:22 PM
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Location: central il
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need some more info, year of bike.

did it just stop running or this been sitting awhile.

black can be rich, it can mean fouled out plugs also. Depends on how much cranking you did.

were the plugs just black or wet also ?

how old is the gas in the bike ? is the bike turning over like it should, not a low battery ?? if the battery has failed, it might turn over but not fast enough.

Id change the plugs and make sure the battery is good, 100% full charge and good fresh gas. Then if it dont start, could need a carb kit or cleaned. but you also need to make sure you getting good spark.

Check the spark, buy pulling out 1 plug and touch it to the head, so you can see the spark , just dont crank much tho, cuz its still pumping fuel into the cylinder, if no spark, make sure its a good plug, if it is. then its a coil issue or electrical issue.

More info need to better help you.

sporty
 
  #3  
Old 09-02-05, 10:21 PM
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The plug can tell you alot... Was it Oil/gas fouled or was it carbon fouled? After all that cranking, you may have just flooded it. Id say go to sears and spend $5 on a spark tester, and you will be able to see how strong the spark is. Put a compression gauge on it... Maybe you dont have any compression. It could be a bunch of things.

Jim
 
  #4  
Old 09-03-05, 12:20 PM
suzukigrl
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Thanks for the responses. The year of the bike is 2003, and yes, the gas has been in it for a while. I don't recall if the plugs were wet or not, but they were definitely black. I bought a new battery that came pre-charged and put that in and still no luck. Even after just a few attempts to crank, I can smell gas. I never noticed that before. Like I said before, I did replace the spark plugs. It just won't turn over, but all the lights, signals, etc are working. How would I drain the gas from the tank? There are no fuel valves on these bikes. Thanks for your help!
 
  #5  
Old 09-03-05, 03:08 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: central il
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ya it could be back gas then, that new of a bike.

Look for the fuel line from the petcock of the carb, just take that off and drain into a can or something.

If you have another hose that the petcock fuel line can fit into and run down into that line, to the ground.

Theres also a good chance the plugs are fouled out from the over fuel on them, even tho bad fuel. Ya if that fuel is over 90 days old, its bad.

sporty

let us know if thats all it is, is the fuel.
 
  #6  
Old 09-03-05, 07:41 PM
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suzukigrl, you can siphon the fuel out. Basically, All you need is a gas tank and some fuel line. Put the gas tank on the ground, and stick one end of the line into the bikes tank. Suck some fuel, then quickly put the end of the hose into the gastank. Gravity will cause the fuel to drain into the tank,a nd the draining fuel creates a vacuum in the hose, so it continually sucks fuel until the one end is exposed to air. when you suck it, you just need to suck the fuel about halfway through the hose, as long as the level of the fuel is lower than the tank.

When your cranking the bike, stick your ear near the exhaust and listen for compression. It should sound like some sort of "thumping" as the motor is turning over. If you dont hear it, hook up a compression gauge. Id start by replaing the fuel, if that doesnt work listen for compression.

If you have compression and it wont start, take out a plug, pour in a small amount of marvel mystery oil, spray a LITTLE bit of starrting fluid into the cylinder, tighten the plu real quick and immediatly try to start it. You should probably hear it at least TRY to start. If so, that would indicate you have spark. This is the ghetto method for those who dont have a spark tester .

Jim
 
  #7  
Old 09-04-05, 05:14 PM
suzukigrl
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I do hear a thumping noise when trying to start the bike. So hopefully the compression is all right because I don't have a compression guage. The spark plugs I used to replace the other ones had been sitting in my tool box for a while. Do they go bad after a certain amount of time if not used? I plan on draining the old gas out of the tank, replacing it with fresh fuel, getting new spark plugs, and then using the marvel mystery oil and starting fluid. Can I get this starting fluid at an auto parts store? I did try taking the plugs out, putting them in the sleeves and pushing the base against the engine while hitting the ignition button to look for a blue spark like the owner's manual said to do. I saw nothing and tried it a few times. I'm guessing that means maybe just the plugs were bad? Or does it mean that there's a problem with the ignition system? Let me know what you think. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.
 
  #8  
Old 09-04-05, 08:21 PM
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Thumpin's good... compression!! Plugs dont go bad by just sitting. Maybe once in a GREAT WHILE you will get a bad plug, but the chance of having to bad plugs is slim to none. Plugs just wear out, from being used for a while. The "sparK" just slowly damages the electrode, and so your spark gets weaker, there has to be ALOT of time on a plug for it to not work anymore. The method for checking spark that sporty posted is pretty ghetto ... you gotta know exactly what your doing with it. Id say run to sears, HF, autozone, RS strauss, or any other autoparts store and pick up a spark tester. usually around $5-$8. There are two types, inline and clip on. You want an inline. Basically, you plug the boot into one end of the tester, and hook the other end to the plug. it just has a little window in itwhere you can see the charge arcing the gap. Hook it up, turn the lights off an crank it.

Starting Fluid is also called "ether" It comes in an aerosol. Be VERY carefull with this stuff, because if too much is used, you can burn up all the oil in the cylinder and then you run into internal problems. Thats why you pour in the M M O. Id say about 1-2 tablespoons, no more. Just rock the bike to work it around inside real quick, spray some starting fluid through the spark plug hole, tighen it up, and try to crank it. This method Is what I do whenever I dont have a spark tester. I also have been known to use a small amount of motor oil. Either would work, but the spark tester is best.

Let us know how it goes!

Jim
 
  #9  
Old 09-04-05, 09:33 PM
suzukigrl
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When I first had trouble getting the bike to start, it did start for a few seconds and then would immediately cut out. It did this a few times and then wouldn't turn over but made a sound like it wanted to start. After that is when I replaced the battery and put new plugs in. It never has turned over again, but still sounds like it wants to start. So maybe I do have spark and something else is wrong? lol I know I am driving you guys crazy with this. But it will kill me to have the dealer come tow the bike in for repair, and I will end up spending a fortune. If you think I still should get a spark plug tester, I will.
 
  #10  
Old 09-04-05, 09:58 PM
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Well if it already started, your ignition is fine. Id say you have problems with the carb (or fuel system if its EFI)

Is is carbuerated or is in fuel injected? take the plugs out, and let it sit for a little while to air out. Then, crank the motor over for a little while. As its cranking, you should be able to smell fuel.

If not, You might have problems with your fuel pump. It could be ANYTHING. What happened when you ran into this problem... were you working on it? Has anybody messed with it? Gotta let us know, this could give a clue.

I dont mind... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Jim
 

Last edited by GregH; 09-05-05 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Unnecessary comments
  #11  
Old 09-05-05, 08:24 AM
suzukigrl
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The bike went to the dealer in March for a tune up and oil change. Other than that, it hasn't been worked on. The bike sat for probably a month when I went to start it the first time. It made a clicking noise (not the sound it makes when trying to turn over). I then charged the battery. When I replaced it, it turned over for like two seconds and then shut off. It did this a couple of times. So, I bought a new battery and changed the spark plugs. It hasn't turned over at all since I did that. It only makes the grinding sound like it wants to turn over when I am pressing the starter button. I definitely smell gas when I try to start it. The bike is carbuerated. Do you still want me to take the plugs out and then try to start it to smell the gas? If so, should I pull the choke out? I have had the choke pulled out every time I try to do a cold start on it.
 
  #12  
Old 09-05-05, 10:08 AM
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Hmmm....


If you smell gas thats a good thing. It means its pumping fuel.

Id say try to start it by just spraying a little starting fluid right into the carb.

Be careful when using this stuff, because it can burn up your piston if TOO much is used.


Im going back to ignition if you think it sounds normal when your cranking it over. What did they do during this tune up? Do you think there is a chance they(or you?) got the plug wires mixed up? If the plug wires are in fact mixed up, the spark plug ill be firing at the wrong time. I would say lable the plug wires for which cylinder they go to, and then swtich them, and try to start it. If it still doesnt start, switch them back.

Let us know how it goes this time, and what the dealer specifically did.

Jim
 
  #13  
Old 09-05-05, 10:19 AM
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bad gas, and fouled plugs, is what I say it is, if it's getting spark that is.

drain the gas, that gas been sitting since march or longer, put new plugs in again, make sure you got spark.

try it without the choke also, i always try starting without choke. 1 to 2 cranks, then i try with choke, no more than 5 or 6 cranks. then its flooded.

Yep, I would change that gas out, in previous posts, there was 2 ways mentioned on how to do it. either one works.

Let us know when you have that done. And when thats done, also make sure that new battery is fully charged and then try and start it.

I'm thinking thats what you need to do to either have it run or determine something more.

But thats what steps Id take at this time.

again-

1: drain the fuel, put new fuel in

2: new plugs, im sure you fouled out the others already

3: make sure you got spark

4: battery fully charged

5: try start without choke for 1 to 2 starts, (1 start = less than 4 seconds pushing on the starter button) If no start then try with choke on.

If you can drain the carbs out first, cuz that fuel is likely bad, and it will take a few cranks before that fuel is out of the carb and the new in. So if you know how to do that or can have someone do it.

I have seen bikes run with the fuel in just the carb only for as long as a minute.

EAch carb has to be drained, you will see a screw on the side of the bowl, this is the bottom part of the carb. either left or right side, should be a screw and you will see close the the screw a whole that is where the fuel drains out.

Now remember if you do this, it does take a few cranks to fill the carbs back up with fuel.

Let us know how this turns out

sporty
 
  #14  
Old 09-05-05, 11:58 AM
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You CAN clean plugs ya know... I use something called SDC, but its "for industrial and commercial use only" so your not gunna find it in stores. Home depot sells stuff by CRC... its called precision parts cleaner or electronics cleaner or somethin like that. Its pricey, but youc an spray the plugs with it and clean them off.

Try changing the gas out first. I had assumed you already did that!


Jim
 
  #15  
Old 09-05-05, 03:48 PM
suzukigrl
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All righty...............I changed the fuel and recharged the battery. I took out the plugs and the one on the right side was nice and clean. The one on the left side was a little wet and black and smelled like gas. The bike has yet to turn over once since I put the new plugs in. I cleaned the plug up, put some marvel mystery oil into each cylinder and sprayed some starting fluid as well. I got everything hooked back up and gave it a go with the choke in at first. It made a loud popping noise when I first tried to start it. After four seconds I gave it a rest and tried the second time. It sounded like it wanted to turn over but didn't. Then I pulled the choke out and tried that. Still no luck. All I could smell was the starting fluid. I didn't smell gas at all. I hope I didn't spray to much in there. I just gave it one quick spray on each side. My guess is the carbs need to be cleaned. I've tried everything you guys said except the spart tester in which case Advanced Auto didn't have an inline one. They only carried the clip on type. In any event, I want to thank you both for all your suggestions and help. I will probably call the dealer sometime in the next week or so to come and get the bike and fix whatever the problem is. I will let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again for everything!!

Suzukigrl
 
  #16  
Old 09-05-05, 07:38 PM
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sounds like you got pretty close,

U may want to try 1 more time, this time with out the starting fluid and clean plugs

The carbs probably do need clean, but usually it will run, just ruff, esp when you mention it was just marched they did a tune up, should ask them if they cleaned the carbs then.

cabr clean at a bike shop should be no more that $75, fyi

Did you drain the float bowls empty ? if you did not it will take a bit for that to get out (the old fuel) before it will have a chance to start on fresh fuel.

I know working on bikes, esp when not famuliar with them, can suck. But honestly I think you are pretty close

sporty
 
  #17  
Old 09-06-05, 04:57 PM
suzukigrl
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My first bike was a Honda Silverwing. I did a lot of the mechanical work on it myself. I changed the plugs, replaced the master cylinder, bled the brakes, replaced the fuel line, charged the battery, and put on all the accessories as I have done with all my bikes. I do have some mechanical inclination, but taking apart carbs is beyond my capabilities. I wouldn't even know how to get them out. LOL These Volusia's are a real pain in the a** to find things on. You have to take off the passenger seat, then the dirvers seat, then unscrew the tank to even get to the plugs underneath the tank. And I must confess, this is my roommate's bike that I'm trying to get started. I sold my Kawi Vulcan Classic 1500 in January to buy a house. Unfortunately, she let it sit to long without starting it and now I'm having to go through all of this trying to fix it because she has no clue. Quite frankly, I'm a little of tired of working on it, and I am ready to just let the dealer come and get it. I was trying to save her some $$. She as well as I thank you and Jim for all your suggestions. I'll try to get a quote from the dealer on cleaning the carbs before them come and get it.
 
  #18  
Old 09-06-05, 08:42 PM
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NOOOO dont give up yet. You can do it. Heck, if you can replace the master cylinder, you should be able to drain/clean the carbs. When I venture into something that I have never done before, I ususaly take a few digital pics of it, so I know how it goes back together incase I have any questions later on.

Id buy a can of carb cleaner to run through the carbs as well. When gas starts to get old, it starts to "varnish" It begins to look dark yellow. Carb cleaner will usually take it off. Your friend probably learned an important lesson... The need for "sta-bil" in long term storage of fuel. Its a product that preserves fuel and rubber components in carbs so that it takes much longer for the gas to varnish. ID highly recommend she picks up a bottle of this stuff, measures it out, and mixes it the next time she plans to let the bike sit for a long time.

Also, its a motorcycle carb, not an edelbrock... you can def. handle it!!! Just remember to take pictures as you go along in the cleaning process. You dont need to totally clean them out, you might be able ot get by by just spraying carb cleaner through the carbs as your trying to start it... this may dissolve any gum/varnish. Im sure you can get a repair manual as wlel if you decide to completely tear down the carbs.

Jim
 
  #19  
Old 09-07-05, 04:39 PM
suzukigrl
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Jim, you are to funny. I honestly don't feel like taking it all apart again. If she wants to attempt doing it, it's all on her! I'm assuming you can get "sta-bil" at an auto parts store? I will certainly pass the message on to her. You don't happen to live in Florida do you? lol I'm sure she would be willing to pay you to come fix her bike.
 
  #20  
Old 09-07-05, 06:03 PM
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Haha nope, NJ.

As for sta-bil... you can get it at home desperate. Its available anywhere. its one of those high-tech automatic measuring bottle type things, so you figure out how big the tank is, measure it out and mix it up. Run it through the engine for a little while so the fuel/sta-bil mix gets into the fuel system. It keeps the fuel fresh for longer, but its usually a good idea to just drain the gas anyway, because new gas runs better than old gas.

If you want to bring it to the dealer thats ok, but were here and willing to help if you wanna tackle it yourself.

Jim
 
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