problems with carborator on 50cc xtreme moped

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  #1  
Old 09-22-08, 05:09 PM
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problems with carborator on 50cc xtreme moped

I have a moped which has set a few years, gas was bad in it and so I went in on the internet for how to take the carborator apart and clean it. I understand all the parts except a couple. On the jets, one end has small holes around the outside of it as well as having a hole on each end. I can blow clear thru the main jet but on the pilot jet, it is as though it is not made to go all the way thru the entire jet even though there is holes at each end. I used a wire from a wire brush and gently inserted it into the jet. At the end where you use your screwdriver to remove the jet, the hole only goes in about a quarter of an inch and feels like I hit something solid, not gunk. First, am I wrong to think it should go all the way thru? Then where the float is held on by a screw and a clip above the needle, I was wondering if only the needle should move in and out, or does the barrel containing the needle also have to move in and out in order to allow the gas? The original problem I was having with the moped was that gas continued to steadily flow out of the overflow tube and cut out really bad but after cleaning and putting it back together, that no longer happens but the best way to describe trying to start it is like comparing trying to start a riding lawn mower without putting it on choke to get it to fire. I didn't mess with any ajustments on it because that wasn't a problem before. As you may have guessed, I'm a woman and not quite knowledgeable with such matters but willing to learn.
Can anyone answer my questions or perhaps tell me what else I may need to do. Thank you
 
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  #2  
Old 09-23-08, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by davenglo View Post

1. At the end where you use your screwdriver to remove the jet, the hole only goes in about a quarter of an inch and feels like I hit something solid, not gunk. First, am I wrong to think it should go all the way thru?



2. Then where the float is held on by a screw and a clip above the needle, I was wondering if only the needle should move in and out, or does the barrel containing the needle also have to move in and out in order to allow the gas?



3. the best way to describe trying to start it is like comparing trying to start a riding lawn mower without putting it on choke to get it to fire.
Thank you


1. not sure without looking at the jet. it may have a smaller hole or holes in the side.

2. only the needle and float will . the needle is a valve and acts much like the float valve in a toilet. make sure it allows fuel into the bowl.

3. not sure what you mean. are you saying it's acting like the choke is not working ? if so check for a fuel shutoff valve. it may have a hose running from the air cleaner box that uses vacum to open the valve, while turning the engine over cover the air intake with your hand to choke manually.
 
  #3  
Old 09-23-08, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by flopshot View Post
1. not sure without looking at the jet. it may have a smaller hole or holes in the side.

2. only the needle and float will . the needle is a valve and acts much like the float valve in a toilet. make sure it allows fuel into the bowl.

3. not sure what you mean. are you saying it's acting like the choke is not working ? if so check for a fuel shutoff valve. it may have a hose running from the air cleaner box that uses vacum to open the valve, while turning the engine over cover the air intake with your hand to choke manually.
Before I received you info, a friend stopped out and he told me the needle could be stuck. I removed the float and clip and when trying to pull the needle, the whole piece came out. I had the housing pulled out that holds the needle. It is shaped like a torpedo, with outer ridges running up and down the housing. I got the needle to push in and out but when I put the housing back in the hole it came out of, it no longer was tight and once I put the clip back on, attached the float, it didn't have the bounce it once did. I think I made a major mistake. I noticed though that before putting the housing back in the hole, I couldn't tell that when pushing on the needle that it moved any parts down so that it would open or close to let the fuel into the bowl. I can't understand that if this housing was suppose to be tight, why is it no longer tight when I returned it back in place. It doesn't look like something that can expand. Have I messed up big time now?
Thanks
 
  #4  
Old 09-23-08, 04:43 PM
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i don't see how you could have messed up but the "housing" for the needle should not have come out. carbs are not expensive if that turns out to be your problem.
 
  #5  
Old 09-24-08, 05:47 AM
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If you are sure the housing for your needle valve came out you can peen or dimple the side wall of the socket in the carb and press or lightly tap it back in. Basically you make a few small "dots" inside the socket with a small punch or nail. The "dots" will have a raised edge that will help grip the housing and prevent it from falling back out. I also heard a vote for puting a little J.B. Weld in the socket to hold the housing, though I've never tried it.

Do not try to peen the housing (the part that fell out). You may crush it or make it egg shaped and the needle might not properly fit inside.
 
  #6  
Old 09-25-08, 06:05 PM
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I think I understand what you are saying about using a punch or nail in the socket of the carb, the housing that the needle sets in has ridges on the outside of it, probably serving the same purpose before I pulled it out. One thing I don't understand, the needle itself never came out of this housing, but it does push in and out. when I look at the housing which the needle is in, the bottom of it comes to a cone shape with rubber on the end. When I push in on the needle, I don't see the needle affect the housing, so if the housing is wedged or jb welded back in the socket which has a tiny hole inside, how would this housing move to close off that hole to let gas in and out? Otherwise, I don't understand how the needle serves a purpose inside this housing if it doesn't move the rubber tip any to close off the hole? Is there a problem with this part? And if by luck I get the housing back tight into the socket and I try and start it and it won't fire, could you possibly be able to tell me what to look for next? I'm pretty sure the spark plug is good.
I want so bad to be able to do this myself, my son is so impressed that I've even tried to tackle the job on my own or that I have what little knowledge I have just from fiddling with it. My husband passed away suddenly this year and he and I use to work on everything together. If I get this working, I can imagine how proud he would have been of me. Thanks
 
  #7  
Old 09-25-08, 07:54 PM
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This link may help to get you oriented on things. This is not your carburetor but it is for a four stroke scooter from Honda. I believe yours is a GY6 Chinese jobby and from your description of things a four stroke.

http://webservices.motorsportdealers...EZ7E/1500A.Gif

The float bowl, float, and float valve are in the ride side of the diagram. The float is #2 and the needle valve is #17. #17 is what you're describing as the torpedo shaped affair with the rubber tip. That valve inserts into a small float valve cylinder, rubber tip first (some of these things are all metal, but most are like yours) The float is mounted under the end of the valve (metal end) and, as the fuel fills the bowl, serves to force the valve into the valve seat at the end of the small cylinder. This shuts off the fuel and maintains a level of fuel in the float bowl which is included in the #3 in the diagram. The float valve seat is up in the carburetor casing or the main body of the carb and not visible in that diagram.

If your needle valve isn't freely moving up and down in that small cylinder with the seat in it, then it needs to be cleaned to provide that free movement.
 
  #8  
Old 09-25-08, 09:22 PM
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you're good to follow all my mumble jumble, and yes that is what mine looks like! Okay, be patient with me again. When I first messed with the needle valve(torpedo shaped affair with rubber tip) it was wedged in its place, the small needle-like that stuck out of the center of the needle valve which is pushed down by the float movement, it did push in and out with ease. Are you saying that the needle valve that I pulled out should move freely as well as the needle in the center? Or do I need to do like the one told me and peen, dent it or jb weld it to hold in back in place tightly? I'm confused on which is suppose to move freely. I tried to put it back together like it is now and the float didn't have the bounce it in this way. Or perhaps it wasn't ever suppose to bounce when you pushed down on it. Thanks
Oh also, could you tell me what it is that is connected on one side of the carborator that looks sorta like a little transformer type thing which has a green and I think white wire running from it to other connections? I'm wondering if it is #7 in the diagram. That is about the area it is on mine.
 
  #9  
Old 09-26-08, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by davenglo View Post
Are you saying that the needle valve that I pulled out should move freely as well as the needle in the center?





Oh also, could you tell me what it is that is connected on one side of the carborator that looks sorta like a little transformer type thing which has a green and I think white wire running from it to other connections? I'm wondering if it is #7 in the diagram. That is about the area it is on mine.



the needle (item 17) should move freely within the body of the carb.
the part you describe is probably the electric choke.
 
  #10  
Old 09-27-08, 02:53 PM
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I'm feeling hopeless today. I replaced the pilot jet as it was plugged and no cleaning would clear it out. I've cleaned every little hole out with carb cleaner several times over. I got the needle valve back and moving freely and everything is all back in place. When I try and start it, all I get is wing, wing, wing, wing, wing....sound, no trying to turn over. No gas is running out the overflow tube as it had before though. But I'm sure it is getting gas, I can sorta smell it after trying to start it for awhile. My son-in-law checked the spark plug one day and said it was okay. It doesn't even want to start by using a shot of starter fluid. Even though my son-in-law said it sparked, could it still be in need of replacing? I'm desperate for more suggestions, I'm about ready to throw in the towel but I'm not a quitter. Any others reasons it should not start? It is a 2003 and only has about 45 miles on it. We never had time to ride it and it set for several years with the old gas, which I've cleaned completely out. Thanks
 
  #11  
Old 09-27-08, 04:08 PM
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Don't give up - if it didn't break, it'll run.

Try pulling out the plug, kick it over a dozen times with full throttle, choke off. Then put a teaspoon of fuel in the plug hole, kick it over twice, then put the plug back in, attach plug wire.

Then with half throttle, no choke, fuel shut off at the tank, try to start it. It should try to fire. If it tries, then half choke, half throttle and try it again. If you have fuel in the carb, it should run for a short time. If you're ok then - turn the fuel at the tank back on, no choke, half throttle, and it should start and run for you.
 
  #12  
Old 09-28-08, 06:23 AM
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don't use starting fluid. try squirting some gas in the carb through the opening where the air intake is connected. you could also hold your hand over the intake to manually choke it. after several revolutions this way there should be gas on the spark plug. remove the plug to verify that. a unit sitting this long is always suspect about fuel delivery to the cylinder.


if you have gas in the bowl of the carb, the jets are clean, and there's no gas getting to the cylinder check the valve clearances.

if you have gas getting to the spark plug check for ignition. try another plug first. CD modules and ignition coils are not expensive for these engines.
 
  #13  
Old 09-28-08, 02:22 PM
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Thanks to both of you, using your suggestions has gotten me a little farther. After manually choking it and the spark plug was getting gas, it finally started for me. At first thru the muffler came blowing out gas/oil and was putting off whitish smoke. After awhile the gas/oil stopped coming out and the smoke improved. I'm not getting the gas coming out the overflow tube anymore either.(Good sign). But in order to keep it running, I varily have to twick the throttle and hold in there or open it up more. If I release, it dies but starts up easily with a bit of throttle. When it is varily running like this, the smoke slightly comes out and putting off a bit of fumey smell. I haven't put the breather or parts back on yet, if that's what its called, I hope when I do, it will still run. First, I need to know if this could be the problem since it has to do with the idle- The pilot jet was 35S and my friend had, a 40S and he told me it should work okay, may make it run a little lean but shouldn't be enough to make a difference. What do you both think? Is that the problem? Or is something else in need of adjustment? I'll be waiting for a reply as I feel so good about what I've accomplish so far, that is with the help of you's too. Thanks
 
  #14  
Old 09-28-08, 02:38 PM
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you mentioned the breather. some of these have a vacum operated fuel petcock. if you remove the intake screen or mess with the intake in any way you may be removing the vacum that opens the fuel petcock. reinstall any intake components before you go any further. we now know you have good ignition so concentrate on fuel delivery.
 
  #15  
Old 09-28-08, 05:58 PM
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after getting your message I went back out to put the breather on. It had been a couple hrs since I last started it as I described earlier. It didn't want to start again and I repeated the manuel choke and after almost giving up, it started. I kept it running and finally shut it off since it wouldn't idle on its own. I put the breather and seat back on and had a little trouble starting it again but atleast I didn't have to take the stuff back off to manuel choke. I ran it up and down the road several times. It opened up nicely and ran fine but as soon as I stop and release the throttle, it dies. I'm certain that the next time I go out to start it, I will have the same problem getting it started as well as idle. But atleast it is a big improvement. Where from here? Thanks
 
  #16  
Old 09-29-08, 03:36 AM
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there is an idle mixture screw on the carb as well as an idle stop screw. the idle mixture and high speed mixture basic settings are 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 turns out. turn them both in untill they bottom. turn lightly, you're not trying to tighten them, just close them. then turn them out to the basic setting.
the idle top screw is on the carb near where the thottle cable is attached. turn it to the right about one turn and see if it speeds the motor up. also, you don't want the back wheel to start turning so have it on the center stand or on a crate while you do this.
 
  #17  
Old 09-29-08, 07:24 AM
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I had already gone back and adjusted the idle screw by the throttle and was able to keep it running without holding the throttle in any. I still noticed some smoke. Problem was, after it has set for awhile and I go back to try and start, I can't get it to start until I remove the breather and manuel choke it, which takes a very long time. To my knowledge, I can find no choke to turn off or on, other than what may be an electric choke which is on the carb but has no buttons or knobs. Before I mess with the other 2 screws you speak of, could you tell me where to exactly find them. I'm thinking I saw a screw on the underneath side of the float bowl but I'm not sure of seeing any other screws. Would this be one of them and where would I find the other?
On, You Tube -carborator care, the guy has the best video which has helped me tremendously but he doesn't speak of making adjustments or doesn't point out these screws. From watching it there is one thing I didn't do the same as he and I wonder if you can tell me if this would be affecting the way it is running. Before I put it back together, I had taken the cap also off the accelorator pump, removed the spring and diaphram and cleaned off the rod inside. I put it all back together. On the video, it shows him first shoving the rod up from the outside into the accelorator pump, screwing the float bowl back on, and then putting the accelorator diapham, spring and cap back on. I put the rod in thru the top into the pump not the underside. Was my way okay too? The throttle seems to be making the connection. Thanks a lot
 
  #18  
Old 09-29-08, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by davenglo View Post
Problem was, after it has set for awhile and I go back to try and start, I can't get it to start until I remove the breather and manuel choke it, which takes a very long time.




Before I mess with the other 2 screws you speak of, could you tell me where to exactly find them. I'm thinking I saw a screw on the underneath side of the float bowl but I'm not sure of seeing any other screws. Would this be one of them and where would I find the other?

first,,, ;you don't need to remove the breather hose to manually choke the engine. hold your hand over the air intake inlet.

second. the two mixture screws should be on the side of the carb close to each other. the screw on the very bottom is the fuel bowl drain.

try putting a strip of tape over 1/4 of the intake pipe, then 1/2 of it if you have no improvement.

at least is sounds like you're making progress...
 
  #19  
Old 09-29-08, 08:13 PM
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I lifted the carborator back out to get a good look for the 2 screws. I only found one, there was none other close or anywhere on the carb unless it was on the opposite side under the area where the throttle cable is connected. But even at that, I couldn't see anything. I tried doing the procedure you said on the one screw, first trying 1 1/2 and then 1 3/4. No luck. Tomorrow I'm going to go buy a new spark plug and put in. I'm sure confused on the screws, and I'm not sure if the one I see is the idle mixture or the idle stop. When I did turn that one screw in all the way, it had been backed out 2 full turns. I know this has to be frustrating trying to guide such a beginner with not much knowledge, but I definitely am learning more than I ever did before I started. Thanks again.
 
  #20  
Old 09-30-08, 03:36 AM
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part # 5 in the diagram could be the idle stop or the high speed limiter. hard to tell from the drawing.

part # 4 would be the mixture adjust. two turns out would be ok if that was the original setting.
 
  #21  
Old 09-30-08, 04:32 PM
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I put in the new spark plug and found it was one of the problems. It started right up each time. Next I tried adjusting the idle mixture screw. Putting it back at the 2 turns out causes it to die. The best place is only 1/2 turn out. I also adjusted the idle stop but I couldn't put them at the equal amount of turns. It stayed idling at this point, sometimes it would almost sound as if it would die and then slightly speed up and continue running. I had it back on the road, ran good but it smokes badly and the fumes are rather strong. I still feel I don't have something quite set right but don't know which way to go, I tinkered with it every smidget of a turn. Could the 40s pilot jet that I replaced from the original 35S be making it run to rich, thus causing what bit of problems I'm having. I'm just so close to getting it. You have helped me so much already, hope you can take me the rest of the way. Thanks
 
  #22  
Old 09-30-08, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by davenglo View Post

1. I also adjusted the idle stop but I couldn't put them at the equal amount of turns. It stayed idling at this point, sometimes it would almost sound as if it would die and then slightly speed up and continue running.



2. I had it back on the road, ran good but it smokes badly and the fumes are rather strong.

3. Could the 40s pilot jet that I replaced from the original 35S be making it run to rich, thus causing what bit of problems I'm having.

1. no need to feel the two adjustments need to be equal. set them where they work the best.

2.double check the oil level. if the smell is that of gas it could be either a blocked air intake or too rich on the carb setting.

3. again,, it sounds like a symptom of # 2. clean the 35 jet and install.

you're getting there,,,
 
  #23  
Old 10-01-08, 05:45 PM
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I'm almost afraid to say it but.......I think the ole girl has it! I couldn't get the 35S clear so the only place I found around just had a 35 pilot jet. I changed out the other with it, did some adjustments on the idle mixture screw and it stayed idling on its own, ran great and I believe it stopped smoking, it is getting late here so when I run it tomorrow I can tell more. If it is smoking it has to be ever so slightly. I am so pleased with myself and I know my husband would be so proud of me for even trying to tackle it let alone fixing it.
Thanks so much for talking me thru it, I would have given up if you wouldn't have helped me out.
Now today my brakes started squeaking on my Yukon, I think I may try my luck with them now!
Thanks again!
 
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