Charging System Question

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  #1  
Old 11-23-02, 10:47 AM
Riz
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Replacing stator on a B&S

Hello, First I would like to thank everyone who answered my last post early this summer. I had some health problems and couldn't respond to everyone, but really appreciated the advice.

Now, I replaced the 8hp electric start engine on my rear engine Snapper rider with a new B&S unit. The problem is now my battery won't charge. Upon checking with B&S it appears that even though this is an electric start engine, it was not equipped with the stator that charges the battery. They stated I could swap the one from the old engine to the new one. They would not elaborate however.

I either need some advice on what parts would need to be swapped out, or I need to locate a manual that will include this information or show a schematic.

Has anyone made this swap? Can anyone offer any suggestions?

As always any help is GREATLY appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 11-23-02, 11:48 AM
mastertekTN
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I wishI could help, if I had the mower here in my shop I could show you how to do it. I dont think you would have a problem swaping the parts,but the wiring can be difficult if you are not familiar with it. A manual mite help.
 
  #3  
Old 11-23-02, 03:16 PM
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Hello: Riz. Welcome back to our Small Engine forum.

My asumption here is your're going to keep the power equipment based on the fact that you already purchased the replacement new engine.

I would suggest you purchase a new Original Equipment Manufactuers {OEM Briggs} charging system specifically for that engine. Doing so would save time and possible headaches.

The engine is already pre-equiped to accept the system and the charging assembly will come with instructions.

After purchase it's a simple matter of bolting on the charging unit and connecting the wires. Should prove to be simple and quick.

In the long run doing so may be well worth the time, expense and effort over any swapping. Which may be why the persons {whomever they are your referring to} would not elaborate on the procedure.

They may not have wanted to attempt the task either...

Regards & Good Luck. Tom_B.
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  #4  
Old 11-23-02, 08:28 PM
Tcumcman
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Charging System

Riz,

I don't think I've ever seen an electric start engine that didn't
have a charging system on it...?? For a Snapper mower especially,
I'm confused on who sold you this engine and told you it was for
a Snapper electric start ?? The stator/alternator and flywheel
will probably switch over to your new engine from the old one.
The OEM B & S replacement for a Snapper is 195707-4519. What
did you buy ?? This is a pretty simple problem to remedy, but I
just would question who sold you an electric start engine and
said it would fit your Snapper and it doesn't have an alternator ??

Tcumcman
 
  #5  
Old 11-24-02, 01:42 AM
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Hello again Riz!

I agree...electric start engines come with stators. If this one didn't for some unknown reason...no need to worry. If the engine you installed is also an 8HP briggs, then you can swap the stator from the old one. You will need to remove the shroud and flywheel on your old engine. Then, you will see the stator (a half or full circle of copper windings held on with 1/4 inch screws). Remove it and install it on your new engine. The new engine should have the spot to install it, even if it wasn't originally equipped with it. Check the underside of the flywheel on the new engine. Is it lined with magnets? If so, use it. If not, use your old flywheel. Surely it has magnets since it has a ring gear for electric start.

Hope this helps!
 
  #6  
Old 12-27-02, 07:00 AM
Riz
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Back again!

Once again health problems kept me off for a while. Thanks again to those who responded!

Believe me, no one is more confused than I regarding an electric start engine with no charging capability! I contacted B&S about a replacement engine. I was told that the engine that was a "direct replacement" was 19507-4519. I ordered one from Tulsa Engine Warehouse. Great people, great price. The engine bolted right up, perfect fit. Electric start came on the engine. After several dead batteries I determined it was not charging. I again contacted B&S and after re-checking the model, type and code number they stated that engine did not come equipped with charging capability. They are the ones who stated you could swap the parts but would not elaborate. The wiring from the new engine is a little different from the old, being that the wires run to a terminal, and then out from there, rather than a direct run, however they are connected as indicated in the engine manual, and the same as on the new snapper riders which have the same engine and configuration.

I still am not sure that I am getting accurate information on this from B&S. I have a multi-meter but I'm just not sure of what connections and scale to use to see if I'm getting output. I'm sure that I'm not though, as the battery is newer, and takes a charge fine with a trickle charger.

Any suggestions, as always, are greatly appreciated.

Riz
 
  #7  
Old 12-27-02, 02:31 PM
Tcumcman
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B & S 195707-4519

Glad you're feeling better !! I've never heard of such....The
engine 195707-4519 (I know !!) is a Snapper replacement
engine that ALL the Central Distributors for B & S sell. It's
ALWAYS had a charging system and IS a "COMPLETE ELEC
START ENGINE". Either someone has "robbed" it off yours
BEFORE you bought it, OR....B & S has "LEFT IT OFF" by
accident, OR....your charging system...IS NOT WORKING ??
Take it to ANY B & S Dealer and they can QUICKLY TELL you
what the problem is.

Tcumcman
 
  #8  
Old 12-27-02, 06:57 PM
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The model# 195707 of your engine translates like this:

19 cubic inch displacement
#5 basic design series
vertical flo-jet carburetor
plain bearings
electric starter, 12 volt gear drive, WITH ALTERNATOR

If the engine were designed to have electric start but no alternator, then the last digit of the model # would be a 5. Your engine was designated to be equipped with an alternator, and if it isn't there, then it has been robbed or left off, as Tcumcman said.

Are you sure it doesn't have one? If your old one just had a one-wire alternator, this one may look different...with a red and black or white wire side by side, coming out near the starter, going into a plug. Do you have this?
 
  #9  
Old 12-28-02, 09:55 AM
Riz
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I'm sure no one removed the parts, it's a new in the box engine, still packaged from the factory and with full warranty. I wonder why I got two responses from B&S? One stated it had an alternator, and the second saying upon looking into it, it did not have. I realize a service center could diagnose it, but that's kind of contrary to "Do It Yourself". It would cost me more to have a service center look into it than it's worth.

The engine has one heavier gauge red wire out what would be the back of a Snapper mower (the left side of the engine I believe it would be) and a thinner gauge black wire out the front (or right side of the engine I think). The thinner gauge black wire attaches to a little terminal (bolt and 2 or 3 nuts) attached to the plate that now had the throttle cable attached, etc.

Is there a way to measure for output? There must be a way to check it with a multi-meter, I just don't know the scale to use, or what connections to bridge.

Thanks again!
 
  #10  
Old 12-28-02, 09:59 AM
Riz
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Oh, I should have mentioned, the red wire is the one that comes out near the starter and plugs into the plug. I assume you know that, but I thought I better make sure.
 
  #11  
Old 12-28-02, 10:00 AM
Tcumcman
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Alternator

Riz,

The "RED" wire should be the charging wire. You should be
able to see a "bump" in the wire just behind the plastic
plug. That's a diode, which converts the A/C current to
D/C, for charging the battery. You can test the output
values with an ohm/voltmeter right from that wire. I'm
sure Cheese and some others will have the output values
for you to test with. Remember....you're measuring "D/C"
current. It's not unforseeable, that the diode could be
bad, and you're output is "A/C" vs. D/C....

Tcumcman
 
  #12  
Old 12-28-02, 10:01 PM
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Yup...you DO have the charging system. It is the red wire. I guess they are still putting the small one-wire stators on new engines. I didn't realize that. With the engine running at full throttle, you should read 12.5 to 13.5 volts or thereabouts on that wire with it being unplugged. This wire should run to the battery pos+ terminal on the solenoid, or if it is not equipped with a solenoid, it should run to the positive terminal of the battery either at the post, or at the switch.
 
  #13  
Old 12-29-02, 08:58 AM
Riz
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THANKS SO MUCH Cheese and TC! Being in Minnesota I've already winterized the engine, but there's still no snow this year so maybe I'll haul it out before it does and find out what the problem is. I plugged the wire into the same plug as the last one, so I'm sure it's routed correctly but if I can verify I have the voltage then it shouldn't be a problem to find where it's going wrong. Thanks again !!

By the way I just purchased a 1967 Montgomery Ward rider and a Bobcat Snowblower so expect to see me again soon!
 
  #14  
Old 12-29-02, 10:07 PM
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Anytime Riz! We'll look for you in the spring, lol!

Have a great new year!
 
  #15  
Old 12-30-02, 05:41 AM
Riz
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Ok I couldn't wait....besides it was in the 40's yesterday, not something we usually see in December ! I fired up the B&S and sure enough I had charging level voltage at the end of the red wire. I then measured it where it connects to the starter button, nothing. I ran a continuity test on the wire between the two points, and guess what....no continuity! I ran a new wire and now I have charging level voltage at the positive terminal too! Problem solved! Thanks again, what a load off my mind to have that done before spring!

If anyone's looking for me, I'll be over at the "installing laminate floors" board!!!!!! (for some time no doubt....it's going to be a LONG winter )
 
  #16  
Old 12-31-02, 01:26 AM
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Glad you got it fixed! Good luck on your floors! The pros over there should be a great help to you.
 
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