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Sylinoid Problem


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08-05-03, 06:37 PM   #1  
Sylinoid Problem

Hi, new to this forum because I am looking for some help. I have a Murray Rear Engine Riding Mower, with a electric start system. What I did was I wanted to change the way I start the engine. Meaning, instead of using the button to crank the engine, use a key switch. So, I cut all the wires that ran to the switch and the light, they all hooked into each other in some way. Any now that I cut all the wires coming from the cylinoid, I think you can see my problem. Guess? I can crank the engine with the button, but I can not get it to start. There are four wire coming off the cylinoid that went to the switch. They are color coded as follows.

2 red wires
1yellow wire
1black wire

I looked at where they went on the cylinoid. And here is the info I have. One red wire connects to the same place that the starting button wire and the starting moter connects to. The second red wire just connects to the bottom of the cylinoid. Te black wire also connects to the cylinoid, just in a diiferent spot. The yello wire seems to connect to a fuse. I hope I explained this in detail enough. I just have not figured out how ti bypass this. I want to get this mower going. ALso keep in mind that I got this mower from sombody therefor I found out that the brake switch and seat switch were removed so for a long time there when I was running in order to start the engine I had to remove the coil ground wire from a screw, and when I wanted to stop the engine I would put the ground back on the screw. Problem is now that I have cut all the wires except the cranking wires and coil ground wire, It won't start that way either.

 
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08-05-03, 09:02 PM   #2  
Terminator20,

Between you and the previous owner it sounds like this mower is missed up electrically. This mower originally started with a key and had safety switches on the brake/clutch, PTO clutch and the seat. I am not a propionate in cutting the safety switches out of the starting system and if you do, you will have to take any responsibility for any accident they would have prevented.
The red wire coming off of the solenoid with the fuse should have gone to the ignition switch. When the key was turned to start, 12 volts (DC) should go through the safety switches and back to the yellow wire to a small terminal on the solenoid.
The black wire on the solenoid should be a ground wire and hooked to the other small terminal.
The black coil wire goes to a safety module, ignition switch and the seat switch. It is designed to ground the engine ignition system when the seat is empty and the ignition switch is in the off position.
To repair this mower right you should try to order a wiring harness and any safety switches that have been removed or are defective.

Hope this has helped.

 
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08-05-03, 09:57 PM   #3  
Hello Terminator20!

Welcome to the small engines forum!

rogerh has some good advice. A wiring harness would probably be best, but probably isn't the answer you are looking for. If you leave out the safety switches, you could have an accident. By the sound of your post, I think you are not interested in the safety switches, correct? I assume the solenoid has one plug on terminal, and two posts with nuts on them correct? The black wire plugs on, and the yellow wire with the fuse and both red ones are bolted on top, right? If so, run the red wire from the battery to one post on the top of the solenoid. Attatch the yellow wire with the fuse to the same post. Attatch the red wire to the starter to the other post. Connect the black wire to the plug on the bottom of the solenoid. Then, run the yellow wire to the terminal on the switch marked with a "B". Run the black wire from the solenoid to the terminal on the switch marked with a "S". Run the other black wire that is the coil kill wire to the terminal marked with a "M". If the switch is mounted on plastic, and touches no metal, then you will also need to run a wire from the frame to the terminal marked "G". This is the setup for the standard 5 terminal keyswitch found on most mowers. There is also a terminal on the switch marked "L". This is for the headlight circuit. If you want to wire up the safety switches, let us know and we'll help.

Let us know how it goes!


"Who is John Galt?" - Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)

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08-06-03, 12:57 PM   #4  
Sylinoid Problem

Hi you gave me some great info, but, The key switch that I could tell, did not have any letters on it representing where the wires go to it. This was a key switch I recently bought from a lawn mower repair shop. So just to let you know, the wires that go to the sylinoid are already connected everything was connected there. However, the other end of the wires is not connected to anything. Thats the side of the wires that connects to the switch. Now with that being said, where do the wires connect on the key switch. Here is info bellow about the key switch.

There is one prong on the upper part and one prong on the lower part. In the middle of the switch it has four prongs. Where do my 2red wires, 1black wire, and 1 yellow wire hook to?

 
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08-06-03, 06:23 PM   #5  
Hmmm...if there are no markings, then it could hook up any number of ways. These switches are not all the same, and even 2 that look exactly alike may have different terminal setups. If connected wrong, you could fry the coil. Look at the plastic backing where the terminals connect to the back of the switch for letters at each terminal. If no letters there, then look at the metal terminal itself for a letter stamped on it. If none there, you need a different switch. Advance Auto parts sells switches that are marked for $7.99 if I remeber correctly.


"Who is John Galt?" - Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)

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08-11-03, 04:28 PM   #6  
Starter Switch

Hi cheese... I just wanted to let you know that I just now got a chance to check out a starter switch to buy for my mower, Assuming that this switch is also a on/off for the engine as well can you tell me if this is the right one?

I am looking on the advance auto parts site, and I am viewing a Motermite Starter switch for 8.99

Is this the right one? Remember we talked about me getting a keyswitch that has letters on the back for the corrisponding wires?

 
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08-11-03, 06:08 PM   #7  
That's not the one, the one I'm talking about is made for lawn mower application. It is pre-packed, and on the small engines parts rack. It is a "Max Power" and probably isn't listed on the website, but might be. It should be $6.99.


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08-11-03, 11:20 PM   #8  
Starter Switch

Ok, I did a search and did not come up with anything. I was wondering if you could give me some information on how I may aquire this starter switch? And if that is not a possible thing because my location is in Washington, than, perhaps you could give me a place on the web that you know has a reliable key switch for my mower.

thanks...

 
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08-12-03, 12:15 AM   #9  
Do you have an advance auto parts in your area? If so, they should have it. If not, most any small engine shop should have a 5 terminal switch with marked terminals.


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08-25-03, 09:17 PM   #10  
I cheese. How you doing?

I just got a new keyswitch that is marked with the letters you described. Read your whole post about where each wire goes. You covered every wire except for 2. The 2 wires you did not cover are, 2 small red wires coming off of the Sylinoid. One of the small read wires comes from one of the top post, the other seems to come from one of the bottom connections on the sylinoid. On the orginal switch that mower used to have I seem to remember these wires going somewhere on that switch before I removed it. If these two red wires that went to that switch was for power to the saftey switches that I don't care about those wires then. If they were not meant for the saftey switches than please explaine why they went to the keyswitch it used to have.

PS: The reason this whole thing got started was because the orginal keyswitch wore out and did not work anymore that when I decided that I wanted to change the setup. Thanks for all your help on this mannor, you are vary knoledgable. Where did you learn small engines?

 
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08-25-03, 10:20 PM   #11  
OK, the red wire that connects to the top post of the solenoid should connect on the same side that the battery cable is connected to, not the starter cable. It is the main power wire to the ignition switch. Test the other red wire for voltage when turning the key to start after connecting the first red wire. If it has 12volts ONLY when the key is turned to start, then it is the solenoid trigger wire, and should plug onto the small tab on the bottom of the solenoid, and the other end should be connected to the "S" terminal of the switch.

I basically taught myself....then took automotive courses at a technical college, which only made small engines that much easier. Then was a contracted Sears warranty man for a while, then started out on my own, with my own business. Thanks for the compliment!


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08-25-03, 11:11 PM   #12  
Where do I connet the main power red wire to ignition switch? Which letter?

 
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08-26-03, 12:01 AM   #13  
Letter "B".


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08-26-03, 08:03 AM   #14  
I can tell that on a couple of wires are going to end up some how hooking up to the same prong. I know that because after reading your previous post showing where all the wires go and than your new post about the red wires showing the same letter. Is this normal? Is it normal to have two wire connecting to the same prong?

 
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08-26-03, 11:58 PM   #15  
Some mowers have 2 wires connected to one terminal on the switch, but it is not necessary for basic wiring. What 2 wires are you referring to? The yellow wire with the fuse, and the red one from the solenoid? They should already be one and the same. It may run through a ammeter and change color there. Do you have an ohmmeter?


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08-27-03, 11:18 AM   #16  
Yes the first wires coming from you said will connect to the same prong is the yellow and red wire.

The second two wires are the black wire coming from the bottom of the sylinoid and the other red wire that comes from the bottom of the sylinoid that you said may be the trigger wire.

Yes I have a OHM Meter

Is it alreight for these wires to connect to the same prong? If so, what kind of a connector would I used to connect two wires to the same prong.

 
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08-27-03, 12:36 PM   #17  
I was wrong

I am sorry Cheese, but I got wires all wrong...

I removed the last tie holding the wires together and found out that a few wires go to different places.

The rist RED wire connects through the fuse, then connects to the top post where the battery connects to.

The second RED wire seems to not go to Sylinoid, it goes next to the starter moter, but I think its really going to the engine. It can't be the coil kill wire because that wire is black and I know where it is already. This RED wire seems to connects to another wire via inbetweene plug therefor running into the engine somewhere.

The YELLOW wire connects to the bottom of Sylinoid.

The BLACK wire is still where I said before. It connects to another place on the bottom of the Sylinoid.

With that being said, where do all these wires connect to the KeySwitch Terminal?

PS: Again, I am really sorry about this mistake, I am learning how to be more thorough with my work.

 
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08-28-03, 12:38 AM   #18  
red wire with fuse to B

second red wire to motor also to B

yellow wire to S

Black wire on solenoid to G

Run another black wire bolted to the frame also to G

Kill wire (black wire from engine) to M

From your recent description, this is how it should go.


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08-28-03, 12:02 PM   #19  
OK, I connected everything together as you suggested according to your information even ran a wire two a screw that was already there and was used in the past for that sort of matter. But we have a problem, I can not get it to start. You don't think it matter connected a smaller wire to a few sises larger wire do you? I don't think it does. Do you think I don't think I fried the sylinoid or anything because when I press the button I can get the starter moter to crank the engine. But that is all I have been able to do is crank the engine. What do I do next?


Last edited by Terminator20; 08-28-03 at 02:43 PM.
 
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08-29-03, 01:13 PM   #20  
Do you have spark?


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08-29-03, 05:01 PM   #21  
It works. I forgot that when it sopped running I used most of the fuel that was left in it. And because it was sitting there for months what little bit was left in the tank had evaporating. I was trying to start without any fire. LOL LOL LOL

Rule #1
When a engine won't start, check for gass


Last edited by Terminator20; 08-29-03 at 06:39 PM.
 
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08-29-03, 10:12 PM   #22  
Glad you got it going!


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