ignition switch magneto vs battery type

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-11-03, 06:15 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
ignition switch magneto vs battery type

Is there a difference between a battery or magneto ignition switch? They look the same and have the same patient number, but I replaced mine with a switch that said magneto switch and my mower still will not crank?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-11-03, 11:40 PM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,814
Hello Terry!

Replacing a switch with the incorrect one can cause damage to the ignition system of the engine (fry the coil). Did you make sure each terminal was lettered the same as the old one?

Have you determined that you are not getting power to the solenoid?
 
  #3  
Old 11-12-03, 06:23 AM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
The original swith did not have any markings except the patient number.
 
  #4  
Old 11-12-03, 10:18 AM
Terminator20's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: USA,Washington
Posts: 865
Chese will remember I had the same problem. I bought a switch from a repair shop and it did not have any markings on it. Without markings, you can not connect a switch to your system cause you have to know which wire goes to what prong. So I had to buy another one, this time I bought this switch from mowerzone.com

If thats what you need to do than do that, cause I remember this was the only way I could get my engine running was by buying a switch from that site
 
  #5  
Old 11-12-03, 10:49 AM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
mowerzone.com does not have a crossover for the switch. still need help. Thanks!
 
  #6  
Old 11-12-03, 02:39 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Well Cheese guess what... I FRIED the coil! I finally got the correct ignition switch (I think) but now there is no spark!!! How do I check the coil or better yet I need a site that i can find out how to replace the coil. It is on a B&S 16HP Vanguard. Thansk for the help.. Hey do you know where I can buy a cheap coil?

Just FYI the markings for the switch are on the prongs...you have to fold them down to find them but you can get the correct info.
 
  #7  
Old 11-12-03, 09:03 PM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,814
Ok...hehe..I assure you that you're not the first to do that (guess how I learned that even though 2 switches look alike they may not be?) Smokey the coil told me. Long time ago.

The engine you have has TWO coils. (assuming this is a twin cyl as most vanguard 16hp engines are). You can use used coils. The coils are the same as the coils on single cylinder briggs engines from 10hp and up. Any mower shop should have them.

To be sure the coil is bad, remove the engine shroud. You will see the coil directly over the cylinder, held on with 2 1/4" or 5/16" head screws. Unplug the thin black wire that is plugged onto the coil and check for spark again with a known good plug, and make sure the plug is touching the engine somewhere while checking for spark. If no spark, then coil is bad. Just unbolt it and install the new one. The space between the flywheel and the coil (air gap) should be .010" and can be measured with a brass feeler gague, or a business card is about the right thickness to use to set it.

The small black wire on the coil should go outside of the engine and connect to another wire. Note the color of this wire, and look on the switch connector. This wire should be connected to the terminal on the switch that is marked with an "M".

Let us know how it goes!

I remember when you were going through this too Terminator!
 
  #8  
Old 11-13-03, 07:34 AM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Thanks, I'll look for some good coils today. I guess I still need a switch that won't fry the coils. I was in hurry and didn't want to order direct for Simpilicity (it takes a week) But I can not find a GOOD crossover from Simplicity number 1686734. Thanks again.
 

Last edited by Terry Toolman; 11-13-03 at 06:08 PM.
  #9  
Old 11-14-03, 02:57 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Well...I put on a new coil (not two just one, even though there are two) to test it and still no spark (fire) what next? Buy a new mower and throw this one away?
 
  #10  
Old 11-14-03, 07:11 PM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,814
How are you checking for spark? Did you check with the kill wire unplugged from the coil? If the kill wire is disconnected and you are checking for spark properly, then the coil is no good.
 
  #11  
Old 11-15-03, 11:05 AM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Yes, I pulled the kill wire and checked the spark with a spark plug. The new coil didn't have any spark either??
 
  #12  
Old 11-15-03, 01:14 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
OOPS made a big mistake. I thought I had the kill switch disconnected, but I missed awire. Now , let me startt again. I got it started, but with out the kill switch connected. Now what. There is a small black connecter box (about one inch long that has both coils connect4d to it, then it has the kill wire connected to it. If I disconnect both coils for it, then it starts and runs, of course you have to choke it out to stiop it. Now what, I thought I had all of the kill switches jumpered and have checked them for continuity and they checked ok. What am I missing.
 
  #13  
Old 11-15-03, 04:35 PM
mower17's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: southern louisiana
Posts: 365
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/index_switches.html

The above link has a good explanation about switches. One reason why you might not be getting a spark with everything hooked up is because you might have a short. With the battery disconnected and the kill switch in the run position, you should be able to connect one lead from an ohm meter to the negative terminal on the battery and be able to touch the other lead on both kill wires and there shouldn't be any coninuity what-so-ever. If there is, then you have a short somewhere. Make sure the kill wire isn't touching the muffler, anything sharp, or isn't pinched somewhere. (I know some briggs have the kill wire pinched between the starter and the block). Any of the above problems will cause a short.
 

Last edited by mower17; 11-15-03 at 10:42 PM.
  #14  
Old 11-15-03, 08:31 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Thank you. I will test it and report back.
 
  #15  
Old 11-16-03, 12:11 AM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,814
Another thing...the black wire that conects to both coils has a diode in it between the two coils. If this diode is burned up, it will not fire. It is small, and is enclosed in heat-shrink.
 
  #16  
Old 11-16-03, 05:59 AM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Thanks, Have checked that wire. I can not find a diode or even a small bump in the wire. It have continuity both ways. There is a small black connector that each coil plugs into , then is goes thru the shroud and the kill wire plugs into it. Could that be the diode. I can not find it pictured on the B&S parts page on the web and the local B&S dealer does not know what it is. Strange ! It is about 1 inch long and 3/4 inch wide. Do you know how to check a diode to see if it is bad or good? (I just had to get a little Christmas lingo in here...bad or good).
 
  #17  
Old 11-16-03, 06:28 AM
mower17's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: southern louisiana
Posts: 365
To check a diode you use an ohm meter and check for continuity. You should have continuity one way but not the other.
 
  #18  
Old 11-16-03, 03:15 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Thanks, that's what I thought about the diode test. Now What I have to do is determine where the diode is, so I can check it.
 
  #19  
Old 11-16-03, 04:48 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Starting problem - saftey switch trouble shooting?

How do you trouble shoot the saftey switches. Can you just add a jumper wire to each one or just disconnect them?
 
  #20  
Old 11-16-03, 05:11 PM
mower17's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: southern louisiana
Posts: 365
You could jump the terminals, you could remove the wires from the switch and connect them dirrectly, or you could test the switch for continuity. Some safety switches aren't that easy.
 
  #21  
Old 11-16-03, 06:35 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Thanks. I have done that, but wanted to be sure I checked them correctly. But, the mower still won't start. Is is a BRiggs Vanguard 16 HP. It cranks but no fire.
 
  #22  
Old 11-16-03, 08:23 PM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,814
On all twin vanguard engines I have tested diodes on, it is located midway between the two coils in the black kill wire. The diode is not in the black box you mentioned, but try this...connect the coils back to the kill wire, and disconnect the kill wire from outside the engine (on the black box outside the engine shroud). See if you have spark then. If so, the diode is ok and you have another problem. If no spark, then there is a problem with the kill wire.

I merged these two threads toghether so that we can keep this all in one discussion...if it gets split into several threads, it will be hard for me and others to keep up with all that's going on with this engine.
 
  #23  
Old 11-22-03, 06:27 PM
Terry Toolman's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 52
Well, I finally got it runnung. On this B&S Vanguard engine there is a (black) connecter that passes thru the shroud that both coils connect to, then the kill wire connects to it on the out side if the engine, by the started. Well, it is a diode that had failed because of the wrong ignition switch that was installed. This piece of hardware is no longer available, so I had to buy the new wiring harness for the coils and then us on side of the old bloack box connect to pass thru the shroud and presto... is starts ans stops just like it is suppose too. Thanks for all the help. I hopes this helps someone else.
 
  #24  
Old 11-22-03, 11:47 PM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,814
Glad you got it going! Was pretty sure it was the diode (common when the wrong switch is installed). For anyone else who may benefit from this...diodes can be purchased at radio shack and installed as replacements without buying the whole wire.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes