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Engine Starting Problem


Jay1911's Avatar
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02-06-04, 12:35 PM   #1  
Jay1911
Yet another Tecumseh 5HP that won't start

Hello to all, my name is Jay and I'm a newbie. I have been reading the other posts with the Tecumseh starting problems, and followed all the advice given. Here is whats happening and what I've done so far.
It's a Simplicity snowblower with a Tecumseh 5Hp model HS50 with a series one carb. I tried to start it on Monday and it sputtered once and backfired from the carb 3 times in a row then nothing. Yes it had last years gas in it.
So I removed the old gas from the tank and the bowl. Put in new gas. Put in a new spark plug. Put in a new rebuild kit in the carb. I checked for spark and it is good. I checked to make shure the float floated and set it to the 11/64" drill bit setting. I know the mixture set screw holes are free because I replaced them with the rebuild kit. Set the mixture screw 1 1/4 turns out. The idle screw 1 turn out.
Now when I try to start the engine I can see gas/air mixture comming out of the muffler on the pull and then out of the carb on the return of the pull start. It will also sputter out the carb when I really crank on it ( 6 or 8 pulls in a row).
Thanks in advance to any and all advice given. Jay.
P.S. I really need to get this thing going before the next snow fall here in MN because I threw my back out on the last big snowfall shoveling.

 
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02-06-04, 02:06 PM   #2  
On rebuilding the carb did you clean it also? If so did you make sure the high speed needle ports were clean and clear.

Other than that I don't know!

 
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02-06-04, 03:14 PM   #3  
Jay1911
Dear Tea3803, I didn't remove the welch caps but I did spay Gum Out carb cleaner into all the ports that I could find. I'm not shure what you mean by high speed needle? Is there another name for that? The only needles I replaced was the main mixture needle under the bowl and the idle needle on the side. I looked on the PDF file (http://www.cpdonline.com/692509.pdf) and didn't see any other possiablities. Although I must admit up until the last four days I knew nothing of carbs. Accually I'm getting rather discouraged. I really don't want to take this machine in for service if I can fix it myself; and of course, help from the nice members of this board.
Thanks Jay.

 
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02-06-04, 05:33 PM   #4  
jay 1911
If you go back to that site and on page 7 you will see a diagram detailing the main nozzle emulsion tube. If you look closely where the high speed needle meets it, you will see a little hole. Sometimes that gets plugged up and should be clean. It's approx a .020 hole and quite difficult to get at with tag wire. You have to work through the center of the tube.
The best thing for you to do would be to actually soak the carb in an approved cleaner then blow all the orifices clear.
But I don't think that is what is causing your dilemma.
Are your valves sticking? Pull your plug out and turn the throttle to "off" now put your finger over the plug hole and pull the engine over, can you feel the engine trying to blow your finger away from the hole?
Let me know.

snoman

 
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02-06-04, 07:34 PM   #5  
Jay1911
snoman, I forgot to list that I did try the compression test with the finger over the hole. I did feel presser out and neg presser in. I will look for (clean out) the little hole you discribed. I am also going to look at the flywheel sheer pin to see if the timeing is off. But I think I would at least get some misfires from the muffler if that was the problem, don't you think? Jay.

 
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02-06-04, 08:19 PM   #6  
jay
Actually if the flywheel key is sheared then the timing should immediately be thrown out of time. And if it was to try and start, you may experience some pretty severe kick back.
If you have the time after checking the carb, maybe check the valves, there may be a problem there.

snoman

 
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02-06-04, 10:55 PM   #7  
Hello Jay!

If gas is coming out the muffler, your carb is flooding. Did you replace the needle seat? Did you install the new one right side up? Sometimes when you remove the old seat, small pieces of it stay behind and allow the new one to leak.


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02-07-04, 10:32 AM   #8  
Jay1911
Ok so It's not the fly wheel key pin because it doesn't kick back. I don't know how to check the valves. I did replace the needle seat with the groove in the seat going into the hole first right? The old needle seat looks intact. I also flushed the hole in the main nozzle emulsion tube. Wouldn't there be gas/air mixture coming out of the muffler becuase it didn't ignite and as I keep pulling to start the engine more mixture is added and the old mixture then pushed out? I guess I have alot to learn here. Thanks so far for your continuing help. Jay.

 
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02-07-04, 11:39 PM   #9  
You shouldn't see enough coming out the muffler to see anything wet. If you see gas, it's flooding. Did you check your float? Remove it and shake it near your ear. If you hear sloshing sounds, it is bad and needs replacement.


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02-08-04, 10:32 AM   #10  
Jay1911
Yes I checked the float by shaking it and listening for liquid inside it. I also put it in a bowl of water and made shure it floated, then I held it under water and made shure there wasn't any bubbles coming up from it. Ok so according to Cheese it is flooding. I am going to remove the bowl and hold the float up as I open the gas line to make shure it is sealing tight and stopping the flow of gas. I will report back after I try this. Thanks agian Jay.

 
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02-09-04, 06:36 PM   #11  
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OK so I checked the needle seat on the float and it shuts off just fine. I tried starting it again with the throtal open all the way and the choke off. It had a small backfire from the carb on the return of the pull start each time I returned the rope. Also one pull out of a series of pulls will feel really easy as if the motor was turning over on its own for that one brief moment but won't start. I still see a white gas or smoke comming out of the muffler on each pull. I put a paper towel in front of the muffler as I pulled on the starter cord and it came back dry. It smelled a little gasy but not too much. I even shot more carb cleaner up the main nozzle emulsion tube to make shure it was clean. I did the compression test again and it pushes my thumb off the hole each time. So I think the valves are ok. I'm not shure what to do next. When I rebuilt the carb I didn't remove the welch caps do you think I should go back and do that? Also the only part I have left from the kit is a little flat black rubber washer that has just a pin hole in the center of it. For the life of me I cound not find the old one to replace it. Does anyone know where this washer is located on the carb? Thanks again for all your advice. Jay.

 
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02-09-04, 07:14 PM   #12  
I thought you were actually seeing gas (as in fuel, not fume) coming from the muffler. If it is just smoke, you may not be flooding. Try removeing the spark plug and squirt a bit of gas into the cylinder, then reinstall the plug and try to start it. If it runs for a second or two and then dies, we know it is not getting enough fuel.

How old is the engine? Is the throttle opening all the way on the carb? Could the muffler be clogged?


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02-09-04, 07:24 PM   #13  
Jay1911
How much gas do I put in the spark plug hole? The snowblower was built between 1984 to 87' so 20 years or so. When I shine a light into the carb I see the throttle is shut then I open the thottle on top of the carb all the way and watch inside as the throttle "door" opens about 45 degrees, is that right? How can I tell if the muffler is clogged? Thanks for your response. Jay.

 
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02-10-04, 03:26 PM   #14  
Jay1911
so I got some starter fluid spray and sprayed some into the carb and down the spark plug hole. It still didn't start. I don't understand it. I got spark and compression. With the starter fluid I should have at least got it going for a second or two. I'm really at a loss here guys. Please help. Jay.

 
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02-10-04, 06:56 PM   #15  
The starter fluid should have worked if the rest of the engine and systems are operating properly. On an engine that old, you may have points. They may need to be cleaned and adjusted or replaced. The points are located under the flywheel. If you access the points, do not remove or loosen the coil or the bracket it is bolted to. If you do, there is an extensive procedure requiring special tools to get it back in the correct position.

Have you measured the compression with a gague? Can you feel good solid puffs of air coming from the exhaust? If not, remove the muffler and try to start it. It may have collapsed internally or bugs may have built a nest inside it causing a restriction.


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