Rope Pull Starter Problem

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  #1  
Old 04-23-04, 12:50 PM
kwildmoon
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Unhappy Rope Pull Starter Problem

It broke. I put it back on. But it's not playing right ... and frankly I'm not all that familiar with the inner workings of a lawn mower motor ... seems like it's tough to pull, when it does pull because the little wings that should stick out and make it pull don't very often, so when i pull the rope, that's all i'm pulling. no sense i'm sure ... but it won't pull, it's not catching anything to pull. what next?
 
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  #2  
Old 04-23-04, 01:27 PM
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Hello: kwildmoon

It broke. Assuming the rope broke, correct?
Which means where it broke and how it broke, needs to be known.

Tough to pull. On the mower or off the mower?

When you put the rope back on, the starter spring has to be prewound first. Than the rope installed. Than the rope gets released and is wound back onto the starter pulley.

Above is the method to install a new rope. The rope is cut at a predetermined length. A broke rope may be too short to reinstall, if it broke off to far downwards from the ropes handle grip.

Those "Little Wings" as you called them are the two parts that extend outwards when the rope is pulled. With the cover removed, pulling on the rope slightly will extend the starter tabs. (Word tabs used to simply matters.)

Those wings (tabs) that extend outwards, engage in the starters cup on the flywheel. Incorrect installation of the starter housing may be causing the starter to bindup. Or the starter itself is not functioning correctly.

It may be required to take the start housing to a local small engine and or lawn mower shop to have it fixed professionally. Inside that housing and beneath the starter pulley, is a coiled spring.

Which can be dangerous to attempt repairs to for some not familar with the proper, correct and safe steps to remove and replace when a rope breaks.

Check back on your question several times over the next few days for additional replies.

Small engine repair parts, generic repair manuals and additional help are all available at all local small engine repair shops and or lawn mower repair shops in your area. Shops and dealers are listed in the phone book directory.

If you need further assistance, use the reply button. Using the reply button moves the topic back up to the top of the daily topic list automatically & keeps all communications in this one thread.

Regards & Good Luck. Sharp Advice.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-04, 06:22 AM
kwildmoon
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Starter rope broke ... now what

Yes, the rope broke ... right at the knot on the pulley. I don't know how it broke, except that the person who was using the mower said he pulled and it just came off (started, though, so he mowed!).

It sounds like the spring is not winding inside the pulley ... just a click ... asssuming CW would be the right direction (when the pulley's upside down)?

As for hard to pull, on the mower, provided the tabs have grabbed, but if i've not got the rope wound right ...

Thanks ... small engines are the latest of my attempts to learn how to do things. Believe it or not, I'm better with large engines -- my dad was an auto mechanic.
 
  #4  
Old 04-24-04, 07:09 AM
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Thumbs up DIY Starter Rope Replacement

Hello: KW

Replacing a pulley rope isn't all that difficult. A little time, a vise grips and a new replacement rope is all it takes. As long as the pulley remains afixed to the starter housing and the coiled spring is in place.

Simply rotate the pulley by hand in the direction it takes to pre wind the coiled spring into the tensioning position. Than use the vise grips to firmly but gently hold the pulley in place.

The pulley hole must lineup with the starter housing rope hole. Once the two holes, starter housing hole and the pulley hole lineup, feed the new rope through the housing hole and into the pulley hole.

Pull the rope through the pulley hole enough to tie a figure 8 knot into the end. Heat the end with a match to melt the coating slightly to prevent fraying. Push it down or pull it down, into the pulley hole.

On the other end of the rope, attach the hand grip as it currently is installed and knot it. Again, with a match, warm that end to melt and seal the rope end so it will not fray. Pull or push it into the hand grip.

Once both the above steps are completed, hold the pulley with fingers so it will not rotate. Release vise grips. Than slowly allow the rope to be taken in by the rotation of the pulley.

Next test it. Hold starter housing in hand and pull rope. Rope should freely extend out and retract. Starter tabs should immediately extend outwards during this process and the spring not drag.

Once all the above is done, reinstall starter housing on machine engine. Be sure to correctly fit the starter housing onto the engine. Snug up all screws and bolts, etc. If all is done correctly....job is done...

Regards & Good Luck. Sharp Advice.
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  #5  
Old 04-24-04, 08:07 AM
kwildmoon
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Apparently the winding of the spring into the tension position is the problem. It's not tensing, just clicks once every time around. Can I fix that, or is that problem for the repair shop?
 
  #6  
Old 04-24-04, 08:55 AM
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Arrow Rope Pull Starter Repair Followup Info

Hi: KW

Yes. In most cases the spring can be fixed. The end inside the cover beneath the pulley has to be reattached to the inside of the starter housing.

Or it may be attached to the underside of the pulley. Varies by manufacturer.

Some manufacturers attach one end of the spring to the outside of the starter housing and the other end to the inside of the cover or pulley. While others attach the springs inside end to the pulley or to a slot or tab on the starter housing and the other end to the pulley.

I sure that makes sense and is all correctly worded and correct...
Rather difficult to explain verbally and in a text only format.

If the springs end is under the pulley and it is positively unwound, (no tension) it can be safely removed, if need be. The inner end of that spring attaches in one of the methods, as mentioned above.

Once that is accomplished, inner tab end of spring attached. outer end of spring reattached. Pulley can be replaced. Than wind pulley to tension spring and use the instructions & methods mentioned prior.

>>>>Reminder To All Do It Yourself Repair Persons & Topic Readers:<<<<

Always use extreme caution while working with any machine, part or device with any type of coiled spring, tensioned or not tensioned.

Danger [SIZE=4]lurks[/SIZE] to those whom are unsuspecting of the hidden dangers which exist. Any coiled spring or tensioning device has the potential to cause severe damage and or personal injuries!!!

Regards & Good Luck. Sharp Advice.
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FYI Note:
For those whom are not confident of doing this repair themselves, take the starter house with or including all parts to any local small engine repair shop and or lawn mower repair shop and have this type repair done professionally.
 
  #7  
Old 04-24-04, 09:24 AM
kwildmoon
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Thanks Sharp. I see a tab on the inside of the pulley ... assuming that is one end? This is a Sears eager-1 about 7 years old ... i don't see how to remove the pulley ... hate to sound like such a goof ...
 
  #8  
Old 04-24-04, 09:42 AM
kwildmoon
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Whoa. I just walked over and tried to turn that starter cup .... it was very unhappy about the idea. Perhaps that's how the rope broke in the first place?
 
  #9  
Old 04-24-04, 11:14 AM
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Hi: KW

The engine will not crank over by hand, if the spark plug is installed. You are trying to crank the engine against the pistons compression. If you want to or need to know if the engine is all or part of the problem, remove the spark plug.

Than hold back the handle bar lever, if the machine is a mower, and turn the starter cup. It should than rotate more freely. I mentioning mower if it applies and for the benefit of our members whom also are reading this thread.

If the machine happens to be an edger, there should not be or may not be any such safety device. May or should, whichever applies to the specific machine.

Back to the basics and to answer your specific second question.

If the engine will not crank over by hand and there is no safety device or blade brake applied, which is likely to be around the flywheel, there is a chance the engine is frozen up and or dragging and or binding, etc as a result of internal damage(s) etc.

If the engine is possible to crank over by hand, all should be well with the engine. The rope may have simply broke from time, age and normal usage

The (tab) (on the inside of the pulley) is where the inside end of the coiled springs is suppose to be attached. Than the pulley gets replaced back into the starter housing and the center holding bolt installed.

Not all coiled springs are attached in this manner. However, if the one you have does attach in this manner, the spring can be wound into the housing and the outside end of the spring placed into the holding spot on the starter housing. Usually this type is found on commonly used Briggs engines for residential lawn mowers.

You are not a goof as you claim. Referrence to such does not apply. You are attempting a diy your own lawn equipment. Which is exactly why this web site and this forum exists....

The pulley should have a center bolt holding it in place. Or some other and or alternate means to secure it. Which is rather difficult to exactly explain here, in a text only format. Any members have a pic? Post it. Thanks.
 
  #10  
Old 04-24-04, 02:14 PM
kwildmoon
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Pics. Duh. Here's a double, Sharp .... the top is of course the pulley inside its housing, noting where the wing tabs are and the tab that i guess must be the spring and the bottom is an aerial view of the starter cup etc. I think I've got it about reinstalling the rope ... but the sprint ....
 
  #11  
Old 04-24-04, 02:56 PM
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Thumbs up Good Job Posting Pics

Hi: KW

The top picture appears to have what parts that are there be in good order. Notice that rope hole in the starter housing? That is where the rope gets inserted and than goes into the ????... Is it missing...????

I do not see the rope pulley. Unless that pic is not included? Or my eyes deceive me maybe....??? If the ropes pulley is a seperate part, not seen in the pic or I am not seeing it in your pic. >Doctor..my eyes...haha.<

The part I am seeing in the center of the starter housing is the caged and coiled spring. Caged meaning contained within. Not likely to uncoil out unexpectedly. In this instance, the spring does not need to come out anyway. Far as I can see.

If the springs tab is visable but not attached to the outer shell of it's casing, than there is or should be the ability to grab it maybe using a needle nosed pliers. If so, do so and slip it into the slot, tab and or location where it can be held in place on the outter casing of the spring housing.

Than, by hand, rotate the spring assembly to tension ithe spring. Hold it in place once that is done. Now the prewound pulley with rope installed gets placed on top of the spring assembly. The starters housing appears to have tabs on the inner circumference which flod down to hold the rope pulley assembly.

Once that is done, the entire starter assembly gets installed back onto the mower. However, from the pic it appears that center cup on the flywheel is damaged. Evidence appears on it's outer top edges.

If that is correct, not clearly visable in that pic, than the center cup has to be replaced. Which means removed from the flywheel by removing the center securing nut.

That nut holding the cup may or may not be easy to remove. Will most likely have to hold the flywheel secure to loosen that nut. To do so, the flywheel should not be held in place using the cooling fins. They brake off very easily.

Blocking the blade in the deck housing under the mower often works. Use a block or piece of wood to jam up the blade so it cannot rotate. Then attempt to remove the center nut in the cup.

Try the above and post back the results. If you can add a pic of the rope pulley, do so. By The Way. Good job posting the pics. I long ago sold the small engine shop and currently do not have access to pics to post...

Still yet, the resident co moderator and others may provide additional info. Keep checking back.

I may not and or most likely, am not providing all the needed info...nothing new for any of us posting replies. Sometimes even pros get "Lost in the Woods" and can't see all the "Trees".....hahaha.
 
  #12  
Old 04-24-04, 06:21 PM
kwildmoon
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What I thought was the pulley is in there ... try this other pic, a little too close and a little too glarey, but with more things marked ... <img>http://pinelakegeorgia.com/images/mower2.jpg</img>

the actual rope hole into the housing is out of the picture ... those others are the screw holes ....

good thing i have lots of other things to do while i'm trying to fix this. and once i learn how, then i'll know. thanks much for all the help.;
 
  #13  
Old 04-25-04, 12:48 AM
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Hello kwildmoon!

If you pull the black part in the center off ...the part that covers those "tabs" (it should just pop off, unless you see a screw in the center)... you'll see how the rope pulley comes off. If you want, you can buy the whole top with the spring and all assembled with a rope in it and ready to go.
 
  #14  
Old 04-25-04, 06:03 AM
kwildmoon
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Hi cheese ... are you trying to say i should give up this self-repair thing?
well .. i'm trying to pop the plastic part in the center off, but that's not going so well so far ... you were referring to that plastic disc on the very top, right?
 
  #15  
Old 04-25-04, 06:06 AM
kwildmoon
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And Sharp ... I checked the starter cup ... it's fine, the picture just looks a little weird.
 
  #16  
Old 04-25-04, 10:04 PM
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Hehe...not at all, by any means. I just wanted to let you know that the whole assembly was available, and for time and effort spent, you might be better off just picking up the whole thing. Some of these had a roll-pin holding the spool on. If that's the case on yours, you might as well get a new one because they are non-serviceable. (although I have lucked out a time or two and managed to get the roll pin out without distorting and breaking it). You don't see a screw in the center of the pulley? If not, it should just pop out.
 
  #17  
Old 04-27-04, 04:38 AM
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Rewind repair

This starter has a clip on the top side (as viewed form the installed position)of the assembly which must be removed before the retainer can be pryed out. It (the clip) is small and triangular in shape (once removed). There likely is a sticker covering up this clip...cut through the sticker to expose the clip. Using a small bladed screwdriver, pry out the clip...you can then remove the retainer by pushing it through (from the same side you just removed the clip) using a punch or similar object. Or you could just go to your local Tecumseh Engine dealer and buy part # 590737 for around $24 and be done with it. This is a complete assembly...depending upon what you need to replace in your, this seems easier to me than fooling with the original. If, for some reason, you decide to repair rather than replace, let me know and I can provide replacement parts #'s you will need...then see your Tecumseh shop for these parts.
 
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