Picked up a Snapper Rider, won't start.

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  #1  
Old 09-27-04, 06:17 AM
theboogins
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Picked up a Snapper Rider, won't start.

Got a great deal on an 83 Snapper Rider, 12HP, well cared for but no start-owner said it had sat for 2 years and the carb was clogged.

I took the carb apart and sure enough, it was pretty gummed up. I dipped it in carb cleaner and cleaned it up and it looks good and clean to me. I figured it would start after that but since the battery was dead, I had to pull start it-no joy. I replaced the spark plug although the current one looked brand new-also think the previous owner put too much oil in it-I guess to get it to start-but the dipstick reads about 1/2 way up the shaft.

I took the housing off and cleaned the brushes of the magneto and the edge. They were both dirty and a little rusty-I wonder if this thing was underwater or something?(hurricane Ivan dropped a lot of rain on us recently.)

Also, I looked at the starter switch and discovered what I guess is a neutral safety switch (with a red wire un-connected)-since currently it's hand started, would this have any affect on the start?

Whoosh of air when I pull the rope and gas appears to be going through the carb. After 10-12 pulls, I pulled the spark plug-I thought it would be hot, no-and it doesn't smell strong of gas either, hmm? I'm guessing no spark but I admit, I'm confounded. All the electrical appears sound but no battery in circuit. Wiring isn't different with no battery is it?

Questions: I think I've addressed the carb issue, how do you troubleshoot a no-spark condition?

Thanks. Sorry for the long first post.

J. Boggs
 
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  #2  
Old 09-27-04, 10:31 AM
Azis
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You should be able to start it without a battery however the key still needs to be in the "On" position. Check for spark by removing the spark plug, insert it into the high tension lead and while holding the plug against the block of the engine or suitable ground, pull the engine over and observe for spark. Try to find a low lit area for this test. If you have no spark, disconnect the small wire from the coil and test again. If you now have spark then you have a wiring issue or circuit connection problem. I don't recall rite off hand, but the battery may need to be installed to complete the circuit, (charged or not) although I dont think this is the case.
If this test still does not get you sparking, you will need to determine whether you have points or solid state ignition to determine what to check next.
 
  #3  
Old 09-28-04, 12:14 AM
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Also, since you said the oil level was halfway up the stick, smell the oil. If it smells like gas, then the carb is flooding the engine with gas. The carb will need to be repaired and the oil drained and filled with new oil before starting.
 
  #4  
Old 09-28-04, 07:34 AM
theboogins
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Thanks guys, still baffled.

I laid the spark plug on the housing and pulled the rope, no joy-I moved it several times to make sure it was grounded OK, still no luck.

I had a conversation with a small engine guy yesterday and he said by pulling the coil off, I may have done damage unless I put it back exactly to "spec" -I see no "specs" in the owners manual-what's he talking about? I made sure it wasn't rubbing, that was all I new to do.

So, let me understand, if I disconnect the ground wire to the coil, then pull, and I get spark, I have a short somewhere else, right?

I'll also try the key in on.

Any advice on the neutral safety switch (I think that's what it is).

Thanks.

J. Boggs
 
  #5  
Old 09-28-04, 10:06 AM
Azis
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Correct, if with the ground wire disconnected you have spark, the ignition is good. This will by pass all other wiring including saftey switches and key.

I cant imagine the coil being damaged by removing it, just need to set the air gap basically as close as possible without rubbing should work, if you have a feeler gage .010-.012 or fold a piece of notebook paper 3x turn the flywheel so the magnet is at the coil, with the mounting bolts loose put the gage or paper between the coil and magnet and let the magnet pull the coil to it, snug the bolts down and insure it is not rubbing.

Also if you can find the model #'s for both the Snapper and the engine it would help in finding online reference manuals.
 
  #6  
Old 09-28-04, 11:12 AM
theboogins
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It's a 281707 B&S

....and the oil did indeed smell of gas.

I drained the oil and will put new in before starting. I am waiting on a repair manual that I bought on Ebay. I have the housing off to make sure the coil is gapped correctly-it was. I was considering pulling the flywheel and replacing the condensor and the points but frankly, I'm not sure this thing has points or a condensor. I've looked at the exploded diagrams on a couple of the websites but it's not clear to me what should be under the flywheel-the diagrams include a lot of different configs and I'm not sure which I have- and frankly, I haven't figured the trick to getting the flywheel off. The two bolts are visible but i can't get a socket on them or a crescent at the right angle-must be a trick.

Thanks all,

J. Boggs
 
  #7  
Old 09-28-04, 02:15 PM
theboogins
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Folloowup

Put a little fresh oil in, disconnected the ground wire to the coil, yanked the rope a few times, didn't see a spark. The B&S parts sheet is very confusing too me-it looks like it could be any of about 10-12 different magnetos and another 9-10 various ignition parts.

I'm gonna need some guidance if I have to hang some new parts on it.

Thanks.

John Boggs
 
  #8  
Old 09-28-04, 03:56 PM
Azis
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If you use the model and serial #'s on the Snapper mower, find the manuals through the Snapper site, it should also have which engine models and serials were used on your model of frame.
Further breakdown on the engine parts listings may give specifics on engine serial #'s between a certain range IE: 0-2000 2000-5000, use item such n such.

Here is the Snapper site which I searched by 83' 12HP and yeilded no results. http://www.snapper.com/publications.html
If you get your #'s you should have better luck.
 
  #9  
Old 09-28-04, 06:32 PM
theboogins
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Part Number

I have the original owners manual, dated 8/82. Warranty card says Model # 28115S B but it doesn't come up on the website. Manual just calls it a Snapper Hi-vac with automotic blade stop. Not a word about the engine, but there is a B&S manual for a model 280700 and 281700 -but nothing in the manual about the ignition components-just the spark plug specs, compression, etc.

I'll hunt it down eventually.

Thanks for the help.

J. Boggs
 
  #10  
Old 09-29-04, 12:29 AM
cheese's Avatar
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An armature/coil from any 10hp or larger single cylinder briggs vertical shaft engine should fit. You can probably pick up a used one for a fraction of the price and not have to worry about it. (they don't fail very often and even a used one will likely outlast the engine).
 
  #11  
Old 09-29-04, 06:35 AM
theboogins
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Thanks for the tip.

...now about getting the flywheel off? And any good ideas about where you can find used stuff like this-I have looked at Ebay already and it looks somewhat promising.

Thanks.

J. Boggs
 
  #12  
Old 09-29-04, 08:11 AM
theboogins
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small, interesting twist..

I had until now not been able to locate any model numbers except the 281707 stamped. Assured by a repair shop that they should all be there I discovered that a service sticker had been strategically placed over the other numbers. It was easy to pull off but when I got it off there was an un-expected surprise-the number had been ground off. I could still make out 211 as the last three digits.

I'm not sure what to make of it now, "hot" maybe-more likely a re-build so I guess I have to "wing it" to find the right parts-the service guy said that he found over 100 possible magnetos for this model series.

Thanks.

J. Boggs
 
  #13  
Old 09-29-04, 09:52 AM
Azis
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I am soooooooo......with cheese on this one, after all its a good ole briggs not a Honda or Kawy, while I agree both make nearly bullet proof engines, god forbid you ever need replace a part.
 
  #14  
Old 09-29-04, 12:31 PM
theboogins
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Small update

The Briggs website has a little about testing the coil and magnets-testing for continuity at the coil, mine shows enough resistance to be in "spec" and the magnet shows enough strength also to be sound. I'm going to assume for the time being that my lack of test spark is largely a result of me not grounding the spark plug properly and/or not pulling hard enough. I also found out that rust has no impact whatsoever on the coil/magneto so I'm not going to worry about cleaning it any more. I'll try to do the spark test better later tonight.

Thanks.

J. Boggs
 
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