Aftermarket Electronic Ignition

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  #1  
Old 04-11-05, 05:01 AM
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Aftermarket Electronic Ignition

I have a Simplicity tractor (circa 1974) that has been maticulously maintained. This machine has given me great service. My only complaint is how quickly the ignition points burn up. I generally need to replace them 3 times a year. Can anyone comment on retrofitting an electronic igniotion on an older Briggs & Stratton engine?
 
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  #2  
Old 04-12-05, 01:18 AM
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Hello gsharpe!

What model engine? 3 sets of points per year??!!! Good grief, one set should last at least 3 years in most any application. Could you be using the wrong coil, or too much voltage?
 
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Old 04-12-05, 03:19 AM
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As far as aftermarket ignitions go, I have yet to see a good one...stay away from these. With all Briggs ignitions you have an option of installing an electronic ignition module, unless you have a Magna-Matic ignition. While, on these units, Briggs will tell you you can install a solid state module, we have had absolutely no luck in doing so at my shop. These type ignitions are used on the following model series engines: 9, 14, 19, 23, 191XXX and 231XXX, all cast iron blocks. Post back with your exact model, type and code from the engine and we'll see if you can install a solid state system.
 
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Old 04-12-05, 05:06 AM
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Motpr ID Number

The motor id number is: 302431-0144-01-7309171.

As to the cause of the points problem. From time to time
the Generator light will come on. This may last anywhere
from a few seconds to a few minutes. I have never been able
to diagnose the cause. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Old 04-12-05, 03:11 PM
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This engine is not a Magna-Matic ignition. Therefore you can install a Briggs solid state coil, part # 398811, in place of the original coil. You can then discard the points & condensor. One thing that concerns me though is that you may have a wiring problem. Has the wiring system (of the tractor) been messed with or serviced lately? Perhaps on or about the time the points started to give you fits? I think you may have a misplaced wire arrangement in the vicinity of the ignition switch whereas you are sending twelve volts to the engines' ignition system. This must be addressed before you proceed any further.
 
  #6  
Old 04-13-05, 05:02 AM
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Solid State Coil

The use of a solid state coil sounds good. However, I don't
understand how a solid state coil eliminates the need for points
and condenser. What is the mechanical linkage that triggers the
voltage discharge to the spark plug. Please educate me.
BTW - the gen/starter was rebuilt about 5 years ago. Other than
that the electrical system has been untouched. I have checked the
wiring against the schematic and every thing looked OK. As luck
would have it, I found a possible cause for the gen light problem
last night when I removed the mower deck for repainting. This
tractor has a power lift for the mower deck and the cables supplying
power to it look like the may have gotten pinched. Since the gen light
issue is intermittent I can't say for certain but I have my fibers crossed.
 
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Old 04-13-05, 09:22 AM
Azis
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Sounds like you may indeed have found an issue and would certainly cause an intermitten condition.
As for explaining or educating on electronic ignitions...well someone took some time and splained it out perty well here http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ition/CDI.HTML

GL
 
  #8  
Old 04-13-05, 11:48 AM
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Principles of ignition systems

That splains it fine. But what I meant was how will this work on
my engine. On my engine the points are operated by a push rod
that rides on a cam on the crankshaft. This engine doesn't have a
magneto. It has a generator/starter, a voltage regulator, and a battery.
The ignition system is very similar to an automobiles with the distributor
missing. I uses a standard 12 volt automotive coil. Heck it even uses a
FOMOCO celinoid to activate the starter. The part (398811) as viewed
on the web looks like a coil you'd use on an engine with a magneto. I can
understand how a magneto can create an iduction field and trigger the coil
to fire but I don't see how this will work in my case.
 
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Old 04-14-05, 12:53 AM
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If there is a solid satae ignition unit for that engine, I am also unaware of how it would work. Never seen one. It really sounds like your ignition power supply is not going through a resistor when the engine starts. I think you're running the coil on full battery voltage all the time. That's what's burning up your points.

When you turn the key to start, you should get full 12 volts to the pos side of the coil. When the engine starts and you let go of the key and it goes to the run position, the 12 volt supply to the coil is disconnected and sent through another wire with a resistor in it that only allows 6 volts to the coil. If it runs on 12 volts the whole time, the points will burn out rather quickly.
 
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Old 04-14-05, 08:37 AM
Azis
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Ahhh I see where ur at now...
What was the reason for the gen/starter rebuild? Did the problem exist b4?
 
  #11  
Old 04-14-05, 10:23 AM
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gen/starter rebuild

The battery kept running down. I had the gen/starter checked by
at a rebuild shop and it needed rebuilt. I also changed the battery.
BTW, I trust the folks that did this work. They have serviced other
equipment as well and I have never had a copmplaint. I generally
replace batteries every two years on warranty but that's another story.
 
  #12  
Old 04-15-05, 10:39 AM
Azis
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Has the voltage regulator been checked or replaced? After looking at the ILP for the engine #'s you provided, it appears to be a typical briggs system. You do have an armature mounted which is passed by a magnet on the flywheel. This is the trigger for the electronic module.
As for the points burning, again all I see is the voltage regulator. Also if you have had battery charging or longevity problems, a faulty regulator could also cause that.
The charging light coming on intermittenly...if during idle or throttle change it could simply be the gen briefly not genning. Unlike an alternator a generator produces voltage dependant on RPM where an alternator has a cutin speed from which it will maintain a voltage.
http://shop.briggsandstratton.com/BS...6-00B0D0203414
Here is a link to get a .pdf of an illustrated parts list from briggs if you dont have one.
You mentioned having a schematic..do you have one for the starter/gen itself...? One of the schematics on this page http://gofree.indigo.ie/~vire7/electric.htm should be similar to what you have.
I would tend to think that the info provided by Puey on a module would work.
 
  #13  
Old 04-15-05, 10:47 AM
Azis
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Originally Posted by gsharpe
The battery kept running down. I had the gen/starter checked by
at a rebuild shop and it needed rebuilt. I also changed the battery.
BTW, I trust the folks that did this work. They have serviced other
equipment as well and I have never had a copmplaint. I generally
replace batteries every two years on warranty but that's another story.
FYI-No amount of quality assurance can overcome bad parts. Small super cheap multi produced electrical parts are often bad from the manufactur of the part used in service. Some have no means of testing "good" or "bad" even checks provided usually will only tell you "It MAY be good" and to replace with a "Known" good one if in question. (Not a new one but a known good )
 
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