MTD lawn tractor not getting gas...

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  #1  
Old 04-17-05, 06:08 PM
stevem01
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MTD lawn tractor not getting gas...

I'm trying to start my MTD / Yard Machines 18.5hp lawn tractor and it seems like the gas isn't getting pumped through the line... It cranks and sounds just fine, but doesn't turn over. When I put a little gas into the carb it starts and runs for about 4 seconds and then shuts off again.

I have checked the fuel hoses, installed a new inline fuel filter, changed out the gas with fresh gas, replaced air filter, and replaced spark plugs.

Also, I took off the front cover to the carb that has the fuel line input / output and it looks clean. Couldn't get a good angle though to look deeper. The first time I did it excess gas came out. Then after I had installed a new inline filter and tried it to no avail I opened the front carb panel again and it was bone dry... like gas hadn't even been pulled up into it at all.

I also watched the inline filter as I was cranking it and it seems to pull and move around slightly, but didn't seem to really get going.

I was wondering if there is a fuel pump or belt or something that may be the cause, or if you have any other ideas.

Here's my info:

MTD / Yard Machines 18.5hp lawn tractor
Model: 13AS699G788
Serial: 1L069H10126

I have both manuals (owner's and engine manual) but didn't see anything that mentioned a fuel pump.

Anyway, any info or input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

-Steve
 
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Old 04-18-05, 03:39 PM
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The proper ID #'s we need to correctly diagnose would be the engine numbers, but...This is likely a Briggs opposed twin and it should have a fuel pump incorporated with the carburetor. It may also have a fuel shut-off solenoid whereas (if working properly) the fuel supply to the carb is shut-off when the key is turned off. This may be your trouble inthat the solenoid is froze in the shut-off postion. Post back with engine numbers and we can better help you out.
 
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Old 04-18-05, 03:54 PM
stevem01
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Originally Posted by puey61
The proper ID #'s we need to correctly diagnose would be the engine numbers, but...This is likely a Briggs opposed twin and it should have a fuel pump incorporated with the carburetor. It may also have a fuel shut-off solenoid whereas (if working properly) the fuel supply to the carb is shut-off when the key is turned off. This may be your trouble inthat the solenoid is froze in the shut-off postion. Post back with engine numbers and we can better help you out.
Thanks for the info. Here are my engine numbers:

Briggs & Stratton
Twin II / 18.5hp

MODEL: 42A707
TYPE: 1238 01
CODE: 9506075B

Sounds like you had it right. If you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. Thanks again.

-Steve
 
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Old 04-18-05, 11:15 PM
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That cover you were pulling off is part of the fuel pump. Verify that the line from the tank to the pump is ok and will allow fuel to flow freely. If so, it sounds like you need to rebuild or replace the fuel pump. Careful, there are tiny tiny springs that can fall out and get lost easily. In fact, they may already have popped out when you removed the cover.
 
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Old 04-18-05, 11:34 PM
stevem01
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Originally Posted by cheese
That cover you were pulling off is part of the fuel pump. Verify that the line from the tank to the pump is ok and will allow fuel to flow freely. If so, it sounds like you need to rebuild or replace the fuel pump. Careful, there are tiny tiny springs that can fall out and get lost easily. In fact, they may already have popped out when you removed the cover.
Hi cheese,

Yes, I saw the springs and made sure I put them back the way they were. (a small spring and a bigger spring with a small O ring looking thing for seating the spring). Thanks for the tip. That startled a bit me when I saw them

I'm sure there are no obstructions from the tank to the inline fuel filter. The line from the filter to the front pump panel was not checked, but gas did flow out of both ends when I disconnected it the first time. I will take that segment out and check it though tomorrow.

So is there anything specific I should be looking for in the fuel pump like debris, etc or a part that's sticking?

Also, do you know if this engine has the fuel shut-off solenoid that puey61 mentioned? If so, whereabouts should I be looking for it? Couldn't find anything that looked like that earlier, but I'm no mechanic. If this were a computer it would already be fixed! LOL

Anyway, thanks for your help. I really appreciate it. Been frustrated for a week with this thing...

-Steve
 
  #6  
Old 04-19-05, 06:04 AM
oldmedic
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sevem01's MTD

My 3 year old White 15 hp (made by MTD) has a fuel shutoff controlled by oil pressure. Its a black plastic circular box between the filter and the carb. Might this be what you're calling a fuel pump? If you don't have oil pressure it won't flow fuel even after your priming attempts. Does your Briggs have an oil filter? If so you probably have an oil pressure regulated fuel shutoff. Did you change the oil and filter last fall or this spring? If the oil filter is clogged this could be the culprit. If oil pressure isn't a problem you should be able to bypass the regulator temporarily to see if the engine will run. I wouldn't try mowing with the shutoff bypassed as you can guess what running without oil pressue could do to your engine. oldmedic
 
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Old 04-19-05, 11:43 AM
stevem01
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Originally Posted by oldmedic
My 3 year old White 15 hp (made by MTD) has a fuel shutoff controlled by oil pressure. Its a black plastic circular box between the filter and the carb. Might this be what you're calling a fuel pump? If you don't have oil pressure it won't flow fuel even after your priming attempts. Does your Briggs have an oil filter? If so you probably have an oil pressure regulated fuel shutoff. Did you change the oil and filter last fall or this spring? If the oil filter is clogged this could be the culprit. If oil pressure isn't a problem you should be able to bypass the regulator temporarily to see if the engine will run. I wouldn't try mowing with the shutoff bypassed as you can guess what running without oil pressure could do to your engine. oldmedic
Thanks for the info. I'll change the oil. That's one thing I didn't do because the level was ok and it didn't seem to look bad or too runny on the dipstick.

Not sure if it has an oil filter. I looked through the engine manual and it is a generic manual that says things like "if this engine has an oil filter then it will hold X quarts..." so I will go and check now and see if there is one.

As for the black shut-off box, I don't have anything installed in the fuel line from the tank to the front of the carb except for an inline fuel filter... unless it's located somewhere near the carb or between the carb and the engine. That's where I'm looking next. I have to take the other panel off so I can get a better look. I'll post more info after I've had a chance to look. Thanks.

-Steve
 
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Old 04-19-05, 11:47 AM
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The fuel pump oldmedic is referring to is not a oil pressure actuated pump but rather a crankcase pressure actuated pump. You do have this type however it is not mounted remotely rather it is integral to the carburetor. As far as the solenoid, it will be attached to the carburetor and is recognizable by the single red wire running to it. Remove this, use a good motorcycle style (low amperage) battery and bench check such. Place a battery ground jumper wire anywhere on the solenoid body, then place a positive post jumper wire to the wire from the solenoid. The pin of the solenoid should jump up. Remove either jumper wire and the pin should retract. If not then this is the culprit. If so, I'd rebuild both the carburetor as well as the fuel pump. Following are pertinent part numbers: Carb kit - 694056; Fuel pump kit - 393397; Solenoid - 397266. Good luck and let us know.
 
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Old 04-19-05, 09:02 PM
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Agreed. I don't think your engine will have a shutoff solenoid. If you don't see a wire attatched to the carb, then you don't.
 
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Old 04-19-05, 11:47 PM
stevem01
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I checked it and it does have a red wire going somewhere up under or behind the carb. I need to take the other panel off to see exactly where it goes. I'll post when I have more info. Thanks. (didn't have time yesterday)

-Steve
 
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Old 04-25-05, 02:48 PM
stevem01
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I got a chance today to look closer at the carb / engine area. I have a question... Beside the throttle control near the engine there is a similar linkage of springs and pulleys that ultimately causes a small piece of metal to rotate and touch the end of a screw. I'm assuming this is some kind of circuit that, if it isn't touching, it won't start... like the brake needing to be engaged in order to start... was wondering if this might have anything to do with it.

I tried engaging the brake and the throttle, but this little circuit piece doesn't move. If the engine is turned off should it be moving with the brake or throttle? I tried to see where it was connected and it looks like the bottom part isn't connected to anything... but it could just be connected to the engine back up behind where I couldn't see.

Anyway, I followed the red wire and it goes back up further so I'll need to take some other things off to follow it back all the way. I'll post when I have more info. Thanks.

-Steve
 
  #12  
Old 04-25-05, 08:56 PM
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I think what you're describing is the idle stop screw. You won't see that linkage move until the engine is running. It's not a circuit. It just sets the idle speed.
 
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Old 04-25-05, 11:43 PM
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At this point you needn't worry about where the red wire goes. With a test light or ohms meter, turn the key to the run position. You should have current here (at the solenoid). If not, then you'll have to trace the wire, but I don't think you'll have this problem. Usually a simple hearing test will comfirm whether or not the solenoid is working...when you turn the key to run position, you will hear the solenoid activate. If you're unsure, remove the solenoid, keep the wire attached, touch the solenoid to a good ground, turn the key to run. The shaft of the solenoid should retract.
 
  #14  
Old 04-29-07, 07:46 AM
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Did you ever get this mower running? What was it? I know this is a very old thread, but mine is doing the exact same thing. I replaced the fuel pump and fuel lines. There is no blockage in the line but i am not getting any fuel into the carb. I just ordered the fuel pump body because i suspect the little flappers in there are not doing their job. There are no wires going into the carb so i do not think this has a sylenoid. also this is the four screw pump.
 
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Old 04-29-07, 09:00 AM
Azis
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Did you remove and clean the main jet?
 
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Old 04-29-07, 01:38 PM
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yes, but a guy at the parts shop told me if all of my hoses are good, and the line from the engine to the carb is good if i take the top of the carb off gas should shoot out of a certain hole. And if it doesnt i should suspect the fuel pump. So i got the rebuild kit and it still does not work. So now i have no idea except for trying the fuel pump body. But i had a guy at another parts shop tell me that those never go bad.
 
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Old 05-06-07, 10:24 AM
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My problem is extremely similar

When I turn the key to my MTD model 845, I hear the start spin but it doesn't engage the engine. When this used to happen on my old cars it was a solenoid (nothing to do with this fuel solenoid discussed above).

Is it likely to be a solenoid here also? Or basically do I need a new starter?

Thanks,
owen
 
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Old 05-07-07, 12:44 AM
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This is a very different problem, unrelated to the carburetor or the solenoid mentioned here. Your problem is a bad bendix drive gear on the starter. 30 minutes of work and a $5 gear will get you back on track.
 
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Old 12-08-07, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by stevem01 View Post
Thanks for the info. Here are my engine numbers:

Briggs & Stratton
Twin II / 18.5hp

MODEL: 42A707
TYPE: 1238 01
CODE: 9506075B

Sounds like you had it right. If you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. Thanks again.

-Steve
HELLO STEVE, I HAVE THE IDENTICAL PROBLEM THE ENGINE WILL ONLY RUN OFF GAS PRIMES FOR A FEW SECONDS THEN DIE, WITH MY 1997 MODEL YEAR, ALL MODEL AND TYPE NUMBERS BEING THE SAME AS YOURS. PLEASE, ADVISE ME AS TO WHAT THE PROBLEM TURNED OUT TO BE, OR REFER ME TO SOMEONE THAT CAN HELP. THANK-YOU, JIM
 
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Old 12-08-07, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nitro-btu View Post
hello Steve, I Have The Same Identical Problem, The Engine Will Only Run On Gas Primes For A Few Seconds Then Die; With My 1997mtd Yard Machine Except For The Year, All Model And Type Numbers Are The Same As Yours. Please, Advise Me As To What The Problem Turned Out To Be, Or Refer Me To Someone That Can Help. Thank-you, Jim
P.s. Does Puey61 Know What The Problem Is ??
 
  #21  
Old 12-08-07, 06:25 PM
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Just some easy ideas to try on the carb;
Remove the 5/8 bowl drain nut,
Did a fair amount of gas drain out ?
If not, there is a fuel delivery problem, which can be plugged fuel path from tank to the pump, or, pulse line from front of engine to bottom of carb is bad and needs replaced, or, pump not drawing fuel, for whatever reason, (maybe kit reassembly was faulty, those tiny springs can be tricky), these should be checked in this order. Can be further checked by cranking engine with plug wires and bowl drain nut removed, to see if gas appears.
If fair amount of gas did drain, then,
Behind the bowl drain nut is the main jet, blow this out with carb spray, spray will come out the nozzle you see as you peer down the top of the carb. Wear safety glasses.
Like I say, jus some ideas,
Thanks,
 
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Old 12-09-07, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
Just some easy ideas to try on the carb;
Remove the 5/8 bowl drain nut,
Did a fair amount of gas drain out ?
If not, there is a fuel delivery problem, which can be plugged fuel path from tank to the pump, or, pulse line from front of engine to bottom of carb is bad and needs replaced, or, pump not drawing fuel, for whatever reason, (maybe kit reassembly was faulty, those tiny springs can be tricky), these should be checked in this order. Can be further checked by cranking engine with plug wires and bowl drain nut removed, to see if gas appears.
If fair amount of gas did drain, then,
Behind the bowl drain nut is the main jet, blow this out with carb spray, spray will come out the nozzle you see as you peer down the top of the carb. Wear safety glasses.
Like I say, jus some ideas,
Thanks,
HELLO GlenM, LET'S SEE IF I HAVE THIS CORRECT. THE BOWL DRAIN NUT IS ON THE BOTTOM OF BOWL. REMOVE AND I WILL SEE THE MAIN JET BEHIND THAT'S ON THE VERTICAL. WHAT ABOUT THE PULSE LINE FROM THE ENGINE TO BOTTOM OF CARB, HOW DO I CHECK IT, IF IT'S CONNECTED ON BOTH ENDS TIGHTLY? AFTER CHECKING, IF IT'S O.K. AND THERE IS LITTLE FUEL DRAINAGE FROM THE FUEL FLOAT BOWL WOULD THE PROBLEM BE THE FUEL PUMP ITSELF? ALSO, ISN'T THE PULSE LINE ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FUEL PUMP, NOT THE CARB? PLEASE, CONFIRM AND ADVISE ME. THANKS, JIM
 
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Old 12-09-07, 07:39 AM
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My mistake, knew it as soon as I posted, the pulse line from front of crankcase attaches to bottom of pump. As you're facing engine from front, the bowl drain nut is on bottom half of carb on the right, takes a 5/8" wrench to remove. Behind where the nut used to be, is the main jet on the inside of bottom half of carb. This is where any crud in the carb bowl will settle and collect.
Check to make sure fuel path beginning at tank to the pump is not restricted.
If fuel path is not restricted and no gas comes out of bowl when cranking with plug wires and bowl drain nut removed, most probably problem with the pump.
Don't hesitate with any more questions.
thanks,
 
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Old 12-10-07, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
My mistake, knew it as soon as I posted, the pulse line from front of crankcase attaches to bottom of pump. As you're facing engine from front, the bowl drain nut is on bottom half of carb on the right, takes a 5/8" wrench to remove. Behind where the nut used to be, is the main jet on the inside of bottom half of carb. This is where any crud in the carb bowl will settle and collect.
Check to make sure fuel path beginning at tank to the pump is not restricted.
If fuel path is not restricted and no gas comes out of bowl when cranking with plug wires and bowl drain nut removed, most probably problem with the pump.
Don't hesitate with any more questions.
thanks,
Hi Glen, I am still concerned with the crankcase pulse line to the bottom of pump. Is there any sure way to check this operation ? Yes, the hose and connections are good. What about crud build up at the crankcase connection ? Thanks, Jim
 
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Old 12-14-07, 09:03 AM
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The pulse line will probably be ok, unless hose is really brittle and cracked.
Have you tried other ideas ? like unrestricted fuel path, cranking with bowl nut and wires disconnected ??
 
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Old 01-01-08, 07:22 AM
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Problem Diagnois - Overkill

Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
The pulse line will probably be ok, unless hose is really brittle and cracked.
Have you tried other ideas ? like unrestricted fuel path, cranking with bowl nut and wires disconnected ??
HELLO THERE GLEN, IT'S BEEN TO COLD HERE TO TRY EVERYTHING I NEED TO DO. SO, IN THE MIX OF ALL THIS, I'M TRYING TO EDUCATE MY SELF WITH EVERYTHING ABOUT FUEL PUMP AND CARB OPERATION. ON LINE I FOUND A WORKING MODEL OF MY SNOW BLOWERS 5HP. BRIGGS PULSA-JET FUEL PUMP, AND NOW THROUGHLY UNDERSTAND HOW EVERYTHING WORKS. I ALSO, WOULD LIKE TO FIND A WORKING MODEL FOR THE TRACTOR 18.5 HP. BRIGGS MODEL 42A707 OF 1997, " ON LINE "IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. PLEASE, ADVISE ME HERE WITH SOME INFORMATION, OR A WEB SITE THAT WILL HELP ME TO THROUGHLY UNDERSTAND THE 18.5 HP. FUEL PUMP OPERATION. I FULLY UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPALS ARE THE SAME , HOWEVER THE DETAILS ARE DIFFERENT. THANKS AGAIN, SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP, SINCERELY, JIM
 
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Old 01-02-08, 07:12 AM
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Not sure what you mean by 'working model', I ran across a website once that had a 4 cycle animation of how it worked.
The fuel pump here works on the same principle as 2 cycle carbs with the fuel pump diaphragm, i.e., crank case pulses create negative atmospheric pressures in the pump body which result in the gas being drawn(actually pushed) from the fuel tank due to the higher pressure in the tank.
Let us know when you've tried the other diagnostic measures.
thanks,
 
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Old 01-10-08, 09:30 AM
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Briggs 18.5hp. Follow-up

Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
The pulse line will probably be ok, unless hose is really brittle and cracked.
Have you tried other ideas ? like unrestricted fuel path, cranking with bowl nut and wires disconnected ??
HI GLEN, YESTERDAY, I HAD A CHANCE TO TRY SOME IDEAS THAT YOU HAD. FIRST, TO MENTION THE GAS TANK IS 5/8 FULL, AND ALL LINES AND CONNECTIONS ARE SECURE, NO LEAKS. I CRANKED FOR SEVERAL MINUTES, BREAKING IN BETWEEN CRANKS, BUT NO SPUTTER, NO STARTING. NEXT, I REMOVED THE FUEL BOWL DRAIN NUT [5/8" WRENCH ] AND SOME GAS DID DRAIN OUT. MAYBE AN OUNCE, ENOUGH TO WET MY HAND. I USED GUMOUT CARB SPRAY CLEANER WITH TUBE TO SHOOT THE MAIN JET. I TRIED TO PUSH THE TUBE INTO THE JET, THEN GAVE IT A COUPLE OF GOOD SHOTS, TO WERE THE GAS DRIPPED FROM THE BASE OF THE CARB AT THE INTAKE MANIFOLD. I THEN REINSTALLED THE BOWL NUT AND TIGHTENED. I THOUGHT IT SHOULD SOAK OVER NIGHT; RECONNECTED MY BATTERY TRICKLE CHARGER AND CALLED IT A DAY. I NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS NEXT IF THIS DOESN'T WORK. PLEASE ADVISE, AS ALWAYS , THANKS, JIM
 
  #29  
Old 01-10-08, 09:52 AM
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Like he said, remove the 5/8ths plug again, and fuel
should dribble out. Then crank the engine with it still out, and fuel should come trickling out. If it does, then your
pump is working. While it is still out, remove the jet inside
with an allen wrench, then crank some more to further flush the carb,then clean and reinstall the jet and plug and try to start.

Fish
 

Last edited by Fisher40037; 01-10-08 at 09:54 AM. Reason: spelling
  #30  
Old 01-10-08, 10:35 AM
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Fish, thanks for the re-inforcement.
Nitro,
Going back thru your posts, in one you mentioned removing the 'front panel' (this is the actual fuel pump) on the carb, and finding a small spring and a bigger one.

Actually, there are two small springs, the 1st one is on a small boss on carb body, then the fuel diaphragm, then the pump body, which has a small spring on a boss, on the other side of the diaphragm.

I'm suspicioning now, since you installed a new fuel filter, that the pump is not assembled correctly with all it's parts, thus not operating properly to pump gas from tank.
I was trying to determine this, in part, by requesting you crank engine with bowl drain nut removed.
Whaddya think ??
thanks,
 
  #31  
Old 01-10-08, 03:15 PM
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Main Fuel Jet

Originally Posted by Fisher40037 View Post
Like he said, remove the 5/8ths plug again, and fuel
should dribble out. Then crank the engine with it still out, and fuel should come trickling out. If it does, then your
pump is working. While it is still out, remove the jet inside
with an allen wrench, then crank some more to further flush the carb,then clean and reinstall the jet and plug and try to start.

Fish
HEY FISH WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHAT IF I JUST RUN 80% GUMOUT IN THE FUEL BOWL, LET SIT , THEN CRANK TO START? IF NOT, WHAT SIZE ALLEN WRENCH TO REMOVE THE JET IF I CAN GET AT IT? AS IT IS I CAN'T EVEN SEE THE JET. ALSO, HOW MANY OUNCES DOES THE FUEL BOWL HOLD? CAN YOU REFER ME TO A WEB SITE WITH AN EXPLODED CARB VIEW SO I CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON? AS OF DATE, NOTHING EXCEPT THE BOWL PLUG HAS BEEN TOUCHED. THANK YOU, JIM
 
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Old 01-10-08, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
Fish, thanks for the re-inforcement.
Nitro,
Going back thru your posts, in one you mentioned removing the 'front panel' (this is the actual fuel pump) on the carb, and finding a small spring and a bigger one.

Actually, there are two small springs, the 1st one is on a small boss on carb body, then the fuel diaphragm, then the pump body, which has a small spring on a boss, on the other side of the diaphragm.

I'm suspicioning now, since you installed a new fuel filter, that the pump is not assembled correctly with all it's parts, thus not operating properly to pump gas from tank.
I was trying to determine this, in part, by requesting you crank engine with bowl drain nut removed.
Whaddya think ??
thanks,
HI THERE GLEN, YOU MAY HAVE ME CONFUSED WITH STEVE, HE INDICATES THAT HE REMOVED THE FUEL PUMP COVER PLATE, MINE IS STILL INTACT. HOWEVER, I HAVE YET TO TRY CRANKING WITH THE FUEL BOWL DRAIN NUT REMOVED. HOPEFULLY, FUEL WILL DRIBBLE OUT THE HOLE WHILE CRANKING, ELIMINATING THE FUEL PUMP AS THE PROBLEM. IN ADDITION TO THIS, FISH RECOMMENDS REMOVING AND CLEANING THE MAIN JET. WHAT IF I USED A FEELER GAUGE WIRE INSTEAD. WHADDAYA THINK ?
THANKS, JIM
 
  #33  
Old 01-10-08, 04:22 PM
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You're right, I got confused (I'm an old person ^_^)
Enter the model and type at this site to download parts list,
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/ma...nav3&subMenu=3

If you look at post #21, last para, I suggested you spray carb cleaner thru main jet, at bottom of carb behind where bowl drain nut used to be before you removed it, and look down carb at same time to see if spray comes out nozzle in carb throat. (I think it will)
Fish's suggestion to remove main jet and thoroughly clean is good, but let's try this first.
We're trying first to establish if fuel is being pumped to carb, are you absolutely sure fuel filter is not plugged??
Let us know,
thanks,
 
  #34  
Old 01-11-08, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
You're right, I got confused (I'm an old person ^_^)
Enter the model and type at this site to download parts list,
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/ma...nav3&subMenu=3

If you look at post #21, last para, I suggested you spray carb cleaner thru main jet, at bottom of carb behind where bowl drain nut used to be before you removed it, and look down carb at same time to see if spray comes out nozzle in carb throat. (I think it will)
Fish's suggestion to remove main jet and thoroughly clean is good, but let's try this first.
We're trying first to establish if fuel is being pumped to carb, are you absolutely sure fuel filter is not plugged??
Let us know,
thanks,
I CAN GUARANTEE THE FUEL FILTER IS NOT PLUGGED. WITH THE FUEL INLET HOSE DISCONNECTED FROM THE FUEL PUMP THE GAS FLOWS OUT OF THE LINE. THANKS FOR THE BRIGGS WEB SITE, NOW I HAVE EVERYTHING. LOOKING AT THE EXPLODED CARB VIEW, IT APPEARS THE FUEL BOWL ITSELF HAS VERY LITTLE VOLUME, MAYBE 3 OZ. I THINK WHAT I DRAINED OUT [ WHEN REMOVING PLUG ] WAS 1/3 OF THAT, OR AN OUNCE OF GAS, ENOUGH TO COVER THE MAIN JET. I BELIEVE, THE QUESTION HERE IS... WHETHER AN OUNCE IS ENOUGH AT CRANK SPEED. HOWEVER, AGAIN I WILL CRANK WITH BOWL NUT REMOVED TO SEE IF GAS DRIBBLES OUT OF THE HOLE. ALSO, CAN A FUEL PUMP BE MARGINALLY BAD, SUCH AS HAVING NO FUEL DELIVERY PROBLEM WITH A FULL GAS TANK; THEN WHEN THE FUEL LEVEL DROPS BELOW THE CARB LEVEL IF FAILS TO RUN, INDICATING A WEAK / BAD PUMP ?? ENOUGH OF MY SPECULATIONS, I'LL DO THE TEST! IF THE FUEL PUMP CHECKS OUT OK. I SUPPOSE THE CULPRIT WILL BE THE MAIN JET. IS THERE ANY WAY SHORT OF REMOVAL THAT I COULD USE A FEELER GAUGE WIRE TO POKE THROUGH THE JET HOLE? TO ALL --- OUT THERE YOUR IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME. THANK-YOU, JIM
 
  #35  
Old 01-12-08, 11:50 AM
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No Fuel Pumping Problems

Originally Posted by nitro-btu View Post
i Can Guarantee The Fuel Filter Is Not Plugged. With The Fuel Inlet Hose Disconnected From The Fuel Pump The Gas Flows Out Of The Line. Thanks For The Briggs Web Site, Now I Have Everything. Looking At The Exploded Carb View, It Appears The Fuel Bowl Itself Has Very Little Volume, Maybe 3 Oz. I Think What I Drained Out [ When Removing Plug ] Was 1/3 Of That, Or An Ounce Of Gas, Enough To Cover The Main Jet. I Believe, The Question Here Is... Whether An Ounce Is Enough At Crank Speed. However, Again I Will Crank With Bowl Nut Removed To See If Gas Dribbles Out Of The Hole. Also, Can A Fuel Pump Be Marginally Bad, Such As Having No Fuel Delivery Problem With A Full Gas Tank; Then When The Fuel Level Drops Below The Carb Level If Fails To Run, Indicating A Weak / Bad Pump ?? Enough Of My Speculations, I'll Do The Test! If The Fuel Pump Checks Out Ok. I Suppose The Culprit Will Be The Main Jet. Is There Any Way Short Of Removal That I Could Use A Feeler Gauge Wire To Poke Through The Jet Hole? To All Of You Out There Your Ideas And Suggestions Are Welcome. Thank-you, Jim
Next Day....
Hello John, And Glen, I Did Exactly As You Two Have Instructed Me To Do And Here Are The Results. First Tried Cranking Again, No Start. Removed Bowl Nut And The Gas Flowed Out, Probally A Full Bowl Full ! Secondly, With The Bowl Hole Open I Had My Wife Crank For A Few Seconds, And The Gas Trickled Out Strongly. I Would Say The Fuel Pump Is O.k. I Believe You Two Figured The Main Jet Is Next. Have Either Of You Considered My Idea With The Soak Method, Just Short Of Removing It To Clean ? Well Guys, The Ball Is In Your Court Now. Please Respond Promptly, Thanks Again, Jim
 

Last edited by NITRO-BTU; 01-12-08 at 11:53 AM. Reason: NO CAPITAL LETTERS
  #36  
Old 01-12-08, 02:17 PM
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Next step

Good, we've established the fuel pump works,

have you not ever sprayed carb cleaner into the main jet (behind the bowl drain nut) to see if it comes out the main nozzle in the carb throat ??

Try this next and let us know,
thanks,
 
  #37  
Old 01-12-08, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
Good, we've established the fuel pump works,

have you not ever sprayed carb cleaner into the main jet (behind the bowl drain nut) to see if it comes out the main nozzle in the carb throat ??

Try this next and let us know,
thanks,
NO, WITH THE AIR CLEANER AND FILTER REMOVED, I DID NOT SEE ANY FUEL COME OUT OF THE MAIN NOZZLE.
 
  #38  
Old 01-12-08, 04:15 PM
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There you go, you have found a problem.
Your best bet is to remove carb and give it a thorough cleaning and install new kit parts, however,
you may be able to get by with removing main jet, like Fish recommended, and clean it good.
keep trying little allen wrenches til you find one that fits.
let us know,
thanks,
 
  #39  
Old 01-14-08, 02:50 PM
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Main Fuel Nozzle

Originally Posted by GlenM View Post
There you go, you have found a problem.
Your best bet is to remove carb and give it a thorough cleaning and install new kit parts, however,
you may be able to get by with removing main jet, like Fish recommended, and clean it good.
keep trying little allen wrenches til you find one that fits.
let us know,
thanks,
HI, IT'S ME AGAIN, I GOOFED, [ I'M 56 ] THIS TIME WHEN I SPRAYED THE GUMOUT INTO THE MAIN JET, THE GUMOUT SPRAY CAME STREAMING OUT OF THE MAIN NOZZLE ! HOWEVER, THE ENGINE STILL WON'T START, OR RUN, ONLY WITH GAS PRIMES THROUGH THE CARB FOR A FEW SECONDS. IN ALL MY YEARS, FROM GO-CARTS, MINI-BIKES, MOTOR BIKES, AND MY 30 YEAR CAREER IN ENGINE DYNO WITH AMC, AND FORD'S I HAVE NEVER RUN INTO THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM; HAVING THE PROPER A/F MIXTURE, TIMMED SPARK, AND GOOD COMPRESSION ALL AT THE SAME TIME AND STILL NO GO !! I AM TOTALLY BAFFLED AND FRUSTRATED AT THIS POINT ! TO ALL WHO READ THIS ---HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!
THANK - YOU'S ALL.... SINCERELY, JIM
 
  #40  
Old 01-14-08, 08:04 PM
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Nitro, Obviously you don't have the proper air-fuel mixture since it still won't run without manually feeding gas into the carb throat. It appears to me that you haven't done the reccomended procedures to repair this engine yet. To fix this, you'll need to properly clean the carburetor. There is more to it than a jet and nozzle. It's not rocket science...don't be scared to open it up and see what's in there. If you get into a jam, we can help you out of it (I know this carburetor like the back of my hand), but you won't ever get it going if you don't do something to fix it.

Don't take this wrong, or abrasively. I only intend to spur you on to do the required repair rather than mull over and discuss the problem.
 
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