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Engine Won't Fire???


John Schenkel's Avatar
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04-19-06, 12:09 PM   #1  
Engine Won't Fire???

I have a 1972 Toro Super Professional Reel mower with a Kohler 12hp engine. I can't get the engine to fire. It has been sitting in a barn for 10 years. I cleaned all of the electrical contacts and I got it to turn over and a spark is coming out of the sparkplug I changed. There is fuel in the tank, but it will turn over and over but nothing will happen. I sprayed wd40 in the sparkplug hole, but not much happens other than a few small pops out of the muffler. I am an extreme novice with engines so what do I do next? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
John Schenkel

 
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04-19-06, 06:52 PM   #2  
Your carb is blocked up. The "NEW" formula WD40 will not burn. Remove the carb & clean, make sure you have fuel flow from the tank & I bet a large Pizza it'll run Can you tell it's time for supper??

 
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04-19-06, 09:03 PM   #3  
Same here..... if its been setting for 10 years!! the carb needs some TLC..... locate a carb rebuild kit.. soak it in a bath type carb cleaner for a couple hours, it may be overkill but blow it out with carb cleaner and then compressed air.

 
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04-20-06, 05:28 PM   #4  
Engine Won't fire still???

I cleaned the carb out a bunch and put it back on and I bought a new battery. All the other times I used a battery starter to jump the old battery. After I got everything all hooked up I cranked it and it cranked a couple of times and then it wouldn't crank and it just clicked pretty loud when I turned the key. It is a new battery so I am confused. I hooked the jump starter to it and the same thing. Did I do something wrong? I did turn the engine over a few times with the carb off. Would that cause a problem? There is plenty of oil in the engine. Once i get the electrical figured out, maybe it is the fuel pump. What can I do about that?

Sorry for the novice questions, but I starting to loose my mind and feeling like taking a hammer to it.

Thanks again,
John

 
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04-21-06, 02:06 AM   #5  
Follow the positive battery cable to the solenoid. This is probably the problem, but check it to be sure. When you try to start it, you should have 12 volts on the red cable going from the solenoid to the starter. If not, the solenoid is not making connection.


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04-22-06, 08:47 AM   #6  
not sure???



I bought a new battery and the engine will crank a few times and then just the clicking sound. I talked to someone who said to bypass the solonoid you put a screwdriver across the two leads on the solonoid, if the starter goes it isn't the starter. Well if you let it sit a half hour and then do that the engine will turn over, but after a few tries it is back to the clicking sound. Is the starter bad?

Again, I really appreciate all of the help!
John

 
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04-22-06, 11:58 AM   #7  
Solenoid could be sticking.

 
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04-22-06, 12:21 PM   #8  
When you short across the solenoid, you still get the clicking noise? If so, then it's something else. Now, you'll need to access view of the starter drive bendix. Watch this when you try to start the engine. Does the starter engage and mesh with the flywheel teeth, making the clicking noise you hear? If so, but the engine still doesn't turn over, check the engine by hand. See if you can rotate it. If not, well go from there. If so, you probably have a bad connection on the battery cables, either where the battery connects or at the other ends.


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04-22-06, 04:16 PM   #9  
More info?

I took the starter into a tractor shop and the starter if fine. So the soloniod and the starter have been checked out ok. I did turn the engine by hand and it goes alittle bit and then it is too hard to turn. Is this the same spot where the starter can't turn it either? I hope that helps. Thanks again,
John

 
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04-23-06, 02:36 PM   #10  
Latest

I found out that the starter was sticking so I fixed that and then the engine would turn over but it didn't sound like the engine was pumping. I opened the sparkplug and looked in the hole and the piston is stuck in the top. I tried to hammer the piston down with a screwdriver and it wouldn't move. I'm I done? Is the engine blown? What next?
thanks,
John

 
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04-23-06, 06:30 PM   #11  
Are you sure it's the top of the piston you're looking at?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the old flatheads, The sparkplug was above the space between the valves & the piston Put you're finger over the plug hole to see if the piston is moving when you crank the engine

 
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04-24-06, 08:54 AM   #12  
Maybe the engine isn't blown?

I did the test and there is air pumping when you put your hand over the sparkplug hole. I disconnected the hose going from the fuel pump to the carb and after a few seconds of cranking gas starts to slowly flow out of the hose. I used starter fluid on the sparkplug hole and I get one pop out of the muffler. I did notice some are flowing around the top of the engine near the sparkplug when I crank the engine over. I have the sparkplug back in so I'm not sure if that means anything.

Any suggestions?
John

 
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04-24-06, 10:26 AM   #13  
More info

Like I said before, when I turn over the engine, fuel pumps out of the hose from the fuel pump. When I take off the sparkplug I didn't see any fuel so I took off the carb. When I took off the carb there was fuel in the bowl and I did notice something wet in the hole from the carb to the engine, but there was an amount of dirt and grime laying there and I took a flashlight and looked inside there and I could see more deposits. Should I get a carb rebuld kit or what should I do next?

Thanks again for the help!
John

 
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04-24-06, 05:51 PM   #14  
You STILL haven't rebuilt the carb?? I thought that was the suggestion in the first couple of postings. Do the carb & clean the fuel tank & try it again Make sure you soak it in a quality cleaner & blow ALL the passages clear

 
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04-24-06, 06:12 PM   #15  
I'll give it a try

I'll give it a try and I'll let you know what happens. I did clean the carb with carb cleaner and took it apart, but I'll blow it out and clean it again and the fuel tank. Sorry but I'm a novice when it comes to engine repair. This is my first.
Thanks,
john

 
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04-26-06, 06:17 PM   #16  
Update??

Here is were I stand...I soaked the carb and fuel pump in a gum out bath I bought and I installed the carb rebuild kit. I cleaned the gas tank and changed the fuel pump. I changed all of the fuel lines. I turned over the engine with the hose going from the fuel pump to the carb and gas was pumping real nice out of that. I hooked it up and sprayed starting fluid in the sparkplug hole and cranked the engine. Just a small pop out of the muffler and nothing else. I cranked and cranked and nothing. I took the sparkplug off of the engine and cranked and I am getting a spark, but I don't see any moisture or anything in the sparkplug hole. The sparkplug just smells like starter fluid. I am totally out of ideas. Any help would be great!
Thanks,
John

 
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04-26-06, 07:53 PM   #17  
I would get the compression checked, to see how well its sealing up.

 
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04-30-06, 11:29 AM   #18  
How to check compression???

I did some first checking by taking the sparkplug out and putting my finger in the hole and starting the engine. I was told it should push your finger out. It didn't do that, but if I hold my hand over the hole and feel air pumping. I took out the oil dipstick and I felt air pumping when I turned the engine. Now remember that I am a engine novice. What would I do next? I have someone who wants to buy it but I need to get it running. Please help!!!
Thanks,
John

 
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04-30-06, 05:21 PM   #19  
More checking and info

I did another test. I covered the muffler and turned the engine over. There was plenty of suction and it backfired. Still there is nothing. I took the top of the engine off and the piston works fine but is black and goopy on top. The two pistons don't move at all when I turned the flywheel over by hand. One is about a quarter inch above the engine and the other is level. I couldn't push on either. I'm not sure what this means???

Thanks again,
John

 
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04-30-06, 08:46 PM   #20  
So when you spun the flywheel, neither piston moved in or out? That sounds like both connecting rods are thrown. Try spinning the engine by hand, by the pulley stack on the engine. Theres the slight possibility of the flywheel not being on and is just spinning in place. Btw, compression tester is the best way to test the compression.

 
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05-01-06, 12:20 AM   #21  
I assume by "two pistons" you must mean valves, since this is a single piston engine. You probably didn't rotate the engine far enough for them to move. The thing that gets my attention is the suction you felt at the muffler. There should be no suction, just pressure. Suction indicates a stuck valve. Rotate the engine 2 full turns while watching the valves. See if they both open and close.


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05-01-06, 04:30 AM   #22  
Valves

Sorry, I meant valves not pistons. I rotated the flywheel by hand and the valves don't move. So they must be stuck. What do I do next? Should I spray them with some sort of rust remover or wd40 and tap them with a hammer? Let me know.
Thanks again,
John

 
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05-02-06, 02:08 AM   #23  
Stuck valves can be tricky. Soak them with a good penetrating oil like PB blaster. Don't hit them with a hammer. Let them soak a while, then grip them with pliers using a piece of leather between the valve and the pliers, and twist gently, rotating the valve back and forth if it will. If it won't, you may eventually wind up having to tap them, but do so gently and in a straight line with the valve stem so as not to bend them. If still no luck, you may wind up ruining the valves getting them to free up. If they are stuck, they may also need grinding, or lapping at the least.


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05-02-06, 04:41 PM   #24  
Stuck valve???

Well the intake valve is going up and down when I turn the flywheel, but the exhust valve is doing anything. I tried turning it and I also tapped on it pretty hard but it doesn't do anything when I turn the flywheel. What should I do next?
Thanks,
John

 
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05-02-06, 07:07 PM   #25  
I'm afraid you'll have to tear it apart & do a valve job Roger.

 
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05-02-06, 11:51 PM   #26  
You'll have to get the valve unstuck one way or another. Rotate the engine so that the piston is all the way at the bottom of the cylinder to be sure the exhaust valve is not supposed to be open, and keep spraying and working with the valve. You may wind up ruining the valve and have to replace it. Just don't break it off, or it will be much harder to remove. Will the valve twist at all? Usually if you can gat it to move even the slightest, the battle is won and you can work it loose.


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05-03-06, 06:04 AM   #27  
Stuck valve???

The valve is stuck in the up position. There is a 1/4" gap between the valve top and the top of the valve hole. I tried twisting and I banged pretty hard on it and it won't budge. I tried to look down inside the valve hole and it looks pretty nasty in there. I try it again today and see if it will budge.
Thanks for the help!!!
John

 
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05-03-06, 06:58 PM   #28  
No Budge!

I tried again and I can't get that exhust valve to move at all. I even hammered on it. What is next? Do I have to tear the engine apart? Please, no!
Let me know if you can,
John

 
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05-03-06, 11:44 PM   #29  
There's no point in tearing the engine apart, you can't get to the valve from there. You just have to keep soaking it and working with it. If it does not work loose, the engine is no good.


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05-08-06, 02:17 AM   #30  
valve job

if you can't get the valve lose and you want it running there are 2 options 1 replace the engine vary easy to do or 2 take it in and have the engine rebuild but because of its age many repair places won't repair it cause it not worth it you can buy a new one for less than cost of repair call around first no since driving all over the state to get it fixed.

 
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05-09-06, 12:46 AM   #31  
That would be nice, except that engine hasn't been made in years and new ones are not available.


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