briggs vanguard twin #385777 in husqy

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  #1  
Old 05-17-06, 07:28 PM
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briggs vanguard twin #385777 in husqy

I have a 21 hp vanguard v-twin ohv on a husqvarna rider 2148 that is giving me trouble. Mower is idling good but floods out at higher RPMs. I was originally having ignition problems and have replaced both coils and plugs. Valves have been checked for proper clearance and operation. The carb (TK) has also been torn down and cleaned 3 times (looks like new). The only adjustments I see are on top for the idle speed air mixture. I am still getting too much fuel at higher RPMs. There seems to be little to this carb unless....I'm overlooking something. Purchased mower new, and ran flawless for 2 plus years. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 05-17-06, 09:46 PM
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Have you replaced the air filter? Even if it looks clean, the microscopic pores in the element can be clogged enough to flood the carb. If it's restricted, it may be letting the engine get enough air when idling, but when demand for air increases as throttle increases, the air is restricted.
 
  #3  
Old 05-18-06, 02:45 PM
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I had replaced it, but had the coil problem. Replace again today and so far so good. It must have saturated during my coil problem. Just curious, but with this type of carb, are there replacement jets of various sizes etc? or is this one pretty much non-adjustable? If so, can it be replaced with an adjustable type?

Thanks.
 
  #4  
Old 05-20-06, 04:19 PM
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it's doing it again.....black smoke & sputtering like flooding out. Choke is not open, new air filter, carb cleaned 3 times, new coils, new plugs.....argh. Just getting way too much fuel. I believe this TK carb is only adjustable by changing meter jets, is anyone familiar with this carb / engine setup?
 
  #5  
Old 05-20-06, 10:58 PM
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There is no adjustment that I'm aware of...or replacement jets of different sizes. Check your oil, does it have a gassy smell? Will it straighten out if you remove the filter? Maybe you're having a valve problem that is causing the carb to spit back fuel into the air filter and restricting it.
 
  #6  
Old 05-21-06, 06:45 AM
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Be sure the coil air gap is set at .010" Anything significantly more and you will have weak spark, giving you the impression of a rich running condition. Most Briggs carbs do have high altitude jets available which will lean out the mixture. What is the altitude where you live? Post back with your engine ID numbers and I'll check this out for you.
 
  #7  
Old 09-14-06, 03:31 PM
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Unhappy Same Problems

I have the same mower/engine. I have the same exact problems. Unfortunatly I'm not much of a mechanic :/

Ironically...2 years (3 months past the warrenty) is when this started.

If you figure something out please update this thread.
 
  #8  
Old 09-15-06, 03:16 AM
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We haven't heard back from Husqy, so we don't know the outcome. Nuffsaid, start a new thread detailing your trouble. Include chassis as well as engine ID numbers.
 
  #9  
Old 07-19-07, 07:06 PM
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Husqvarna - Vanguard twin - Carb. flooding at high rpm

I have the same problem as was previously posted and that is flooding with black exhaust smoke at high rpm. I have replaced the spark plugs, air filter (twice) and still have the problem at high speed and under varying load. The engine is a Vanguard Twin 21 hp SN 385777 0349-E1 04041311. I have run the engine without the air filter and the problem still exist. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
  #10  
Old 07-20-07, 02:43 AM
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A black smoke issue will be a flooding type issue and could be either a carburetor-dumping-fuel problem or an ignition system that is weak and unable to burn of the fuel charge completely. The first and easiest step is to check the strength of the ignition system by inserting an inline spark tester between the spark plugs and the spark plug leads (wires). If the ignition strength is OK you will get a steady, blue spark to jump the exagerated gap on the tester. If the ignition is weak then spark will either not jump the gap or you will notice an intermittent jump of the spark or a spark that is white, not blue. If this tests out OK then you should remove the carburetor and have a look for any trouble inside it. FYI, there are high altitude jets (leaner) available and are part numbers 809723 (altitude generally from 2,500-9,999 ft above sea level) and 842450 (even leaner, for altitudes above 10,000 ft).
 
  #11  
Old 07-20-07, 07:55 AM
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Seems to have been a few folks with the same problem and no documented resolutions as of yet.
Cheese hit on a direction I have been thinking and that would be valves.
Without checking I think these are overhead valve engines, which I believe the clearances are recommended to be checked and set once a year...?
 
  #12  
Old 07-27-07, 12:04 PM
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Vanguard engine now running well

-Valves needed adjustment, way too tight on one cylinder

-fuel shut off valve on carburetor removed and tested. Needed replacement.
This valve is used to shut down the engine so as to eliminated run-on after shut down.

-Removed carburetor and cleaned all jets and vents.

-Adjusted load/speed governor

-Cleaned plugs (these were new but had heavy carbon deposits)

Engine started and ran well until I installed previous air filter which was also new..... Folks this engine will not run with the wrong air filter! Air Filter # 692519 and foam filter 692520 proved to be the correct numbers. This is the first time I have encountered this problem.

These steps solved my problems so far. I've mowed about an hour and the engine is running well. However I plan on rechecking the valve settings again because they sound a little loose.

Check your Air Filter for the correct part numbers. BTW engine time is 102 hrs.
 
  #13  
Old 07-27-07, 12:18 PM
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The too-tight valves would cause the problem. It lets a small amount of compression blow back into the intake, which makes air travel backwards through the carb, past the venturi, picking up fuel, then back forwards through the venturi a second time, picking up fuel again, which gives the engine more fuel than it needs. If it's bad enough, it will spray the air filter with tiny droplets of fuel, which will clog an air filter. The fibers get moist, swell, block flow, and when it dries it never is the same.
 
  #14  
Old 07-28-07, 09:16 PM
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Try the idle mixture screws

My Husqvarna with the Vanguard engine 385777 had a similar problem. After 2 years, and 50 hours on the hour meter, it started emitting black smoke from the exhaust. I could see that it was running too rich. My assumption was the air filter, and I replaced it, but the black smoke was still present.

I searched the web to see if anyone else had the same problem, and I found a little bit of information. I do know the problem has to do with carburetion; the engine is simply getting too much fuel. The two capped mixture screws on the top of the carburetor are for idle adjustment, but there are no adjustment for hi-speed.

I disassembled several pieces until I could look into the carb while the engine was running, and I observed that the throttle plates barely opened at full speed. Since the plates did not open very far, I felt the idle mixture screws could still be pulling fuel, and they might need adjusting. I pried the plastic limiter caps off the adjustment screws, lowered the engine speed down to idle, and adjusted the screws until the idle was smooth. Wow, what a difference it made at idle. The idle speed is now very smooth, with no popping or surging.

However, the original problem was high-speed flooding. I cranked the throttle to full, and the engine did not emit the usual black smoke. I put everything back together, and mowed the yard. The engine ran superbly; I had forgotten what it was like, and I sure liked the improvement.

It may sound strange that adjusting the idle screws fixed the problem, but it worked for me. Remember, you will need to pry off the plastic limiter caps to make the mixture correct. After the adjustment, I put the caps back on. The cost of repair is zero, but it will take about 20 minutes of time.
 
  #15  
Old 07-29-07, 09:31 PM
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The only problem there is the fact that it ran fine all that time with the carburetor set like it was. Then all of a sudden the carb settings weren't good enough anymore? That indicates to me that something else changed. You changing the carb settings compensated for it, but there is something else that needs attention. Have you adjusted the valves? Are you aware that that is a reccomended maintainence procedure?
 
  #16  
Old 07-27-08, 06:26 PM
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Husqvarna w/Vangard 385777

After 4yrs, the starter motor on my Vangard 385777 shorted and burned out. I can't seem to find a replacement motor that will fit. It has a 4" long housing. This is a 21hp verticle V-Twin.
Also I think the solenoid is fried from over current.
Any sugestions regarding a supplier would be much appreciated. Thanks.

PS: Naturally, we had a three year extended warranty.
 
  #17  
Old 07-27-08, 07:17 PM
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Should not be an issue finding a new starter motor for anything made by Briggs and Stratton. Will need the type and code number off of your engine to track down the correct part number.
 
  #18  
Old 07-28-08, 06:56 AM
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30 year;

Thanks. I've got the part number (I think):

#691564 (around $130.00)

I can't find anyone with it in stock. B&S automated answering is pretty useless.
 
  #19  
Old 08-01-08, 11:50 AM
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21HP vanguard

I also have the same mower/engine and have experienced the same problem. It seems to be very common. I didn't notice a problem until I first changed the air filter. I changed coils, plugs, and fuel filter. I noticed the problem went away after I remove the air filter. The replacement filter looked a little different than the original I used the part # suggested on the mower. I bought a Kohler filter that was a little larger had to make some minor modifications to get it to work but mower runs fine with it. I believe the reccommended filter is not large enough, and is different than the OEM filter.[

QUOTE=fla-man;1209345]-Valves needed adjustment, way too tight on one cylinder

-fuel shut off valve on carburetor removed and tested. Needed replacement.
This valve is used to shut down the engine so as to eliminated run-on after shut down.

-Removed carburetor and cleaned all jets and vents.

-Adjusted load/speed governor

-Cleaned plugs (these were new but had heavy carbon deposits)

Engine started and ran well until I installed previous air filter which was also new..... Folks this engine will not run with the wrong air filter! Air Filter # 692519 and foam filter 692520 proved to be the correct numbers. This is the first time I have encountered this problem.

These steps solved my problems so far. I've mowed about an hour and the engine is running well. However I plan on rechecking the valve settings again because they sound a little loose.

Check your Air Filter for the correct part numbers. BTW engine time is 102 hrs.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by husqy View Post
I have a 21 hp vanguard v-twin ohv on a husqvarna rider 2148 that is giving me trouble. Mower is idling good but floods out at higher RPMs. I was originally having ignition problems and have replaced both coils and plugs. Valves have been checked for proper clearance and operation. The carb (TK) has also been torn down and cleaned 3 times (looks like new). The only adjustments I see are on top for the idle speed air mixture. I am still getting too much fuel at higher RPMs. There seems to be little to this carb unless....I'm overlooking something. Purchased mower new, and ran flawless for 2 plus years. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
  #20  
Old 08-01-08, 12:01 PM
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air filter

Originally Posted by wrench head View Post
I also have the same mower/engine and have experienced the same problem. It seems to be very common. I didn't notice a problem until I first changed the air filter. I changed coils, plugs, and fuel filter. I noticed the problem went away after I remove the air filter. The replacement filter looked a little different than the original I used the part # suggested on the mower. I bought a Kohler filter that was a little larger had to make some minor modifications to get it to work but mower runs fine with it. I believe the reccommended filter is not large enough, and is different than the OEM filter.[

QUOTE=fla-man;1209345]-Valves needed adjustment, way too tight on one cylinder

-fuel shut off valve on carburetor removed and tested. Needed replacement.
This valve is used to shut down the engine so as to eliminated run-on after shut down.

-Removed carburetor and cleaned all jets and vents.

-Adjusted load/speed governor

-Cleaned plugs (these were new but had heavy carbon deposits)

Engine started and ran well until I installed previous air filter which was also new..... Folks this engine will not run with the wrong air filter! Air Filter # 692519 and foam filter 692520 proved to be the correct numbers. This is the first time I have encountered this problem.

These steps solved my problems so far. I've mowed about an hour and the engine is running well. However I plan on rechecking the valve settings again because they sound a little loose.

Check your Air Filter for the correct part numbers. BTW engine time is 102 hrs.
[/QUOTE]

Is the filter number you posted the recommended OEM filter? I replaced my filter with a larger Kohler filter and problem went away. I am going to try the Idle screws.
 
  #21  
Old 09-16-08, 04:49 AM
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I have the same Husq. Mower with the same problems. Started around 150 hrs / 4 years old. The problem does go away for a short time when the air filter is replaced but that is not the fix for it because I am replacing air filters every few hrs. ???

I will check the valves as soon as I can. Does anyone know what they should be set at?

Thanks
 
  #22  
Old 09-16-08, 07:35 PM
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Air filter wet

I removed the air filter and it runs fine. Filter is a little wet. What could be causing this? This filter is pretty new. Valves??

What should they be set at?
 
  #23  
Old 09-16-08, 08:00 PM
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I can look it up if you post the engine model #.
 
  #24  
Old 09-16-08, 08:04 PM
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It is a model 385777. Also has a type tag with 0349-e1. It is on the same Husq as the post below.
 
  #25  
Old 09-17-08, 05:49 AM
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If a filter of the type on your more is wet or oily it severly limits air flow. Install a new one.
 
  #26  
Old 09-17-08, 09:51 AM
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The air filter that is in there is pretty new. Something else is wrong that is causing the filter to get wet. I don't think I should be replacing filters ever 10 hours or so. My guess is a carb or valve issue but that is why I posted it so maybe I can get some ideas on were to start.
 
  #27  
Old 09-17-08, 10:59 AM
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Sorry, I missed the post about the filter repeatedly becoming wet, with fuel I surmise.

Check and adjust valve lash, which may be part of the problem. I do think the problem may be related to the carburetor with float level too high. What is the type number of your engine? If it is -0349 like one of the other engines in this post that is a carburetor, I have not had any experience with. Maybe someone else is familiar with the float in this carburetor.
 
  #28  
Old 09-17-08, 05:33 PM
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Yes I believe it is gas in the filter and Yes the engine type is 0349.

I just went through the carb and everything looked good. Next I will adjust valves but I am not sure how to tell where the pistons are so that I can adjust.

what is the easiest way to see where they are?? The manual says that the pistons should be 1/4" past top dead center.
 
  #29  
Old 11-10-08, 09:02 AM
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Valve adjustment?

Anyone have specs and procedures on how to adjust the valves on B&S Vanguard 385777? Mine also runs bad and smokes black.
 
  #30  
Old 11-10-08, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Gabe K View Post
Anyone have specs and procedures on how to adjust the valves on B&S Vanguard 385777? Mine also runs bad and smokes black.
Here is a link to a Briggs check chart that has the specifications for adjustments on their engines.

http://www4.briggsandstratton.com/mi...art_ms3992.pdf

Here is a link with some basic information on setting valves.

How are the valves properly serviced?

The first thing to check however with the symptoms you listed, would be your air filter. A dirty or plugged air filter will cause the engine to run rough and smoke black, this indicates a rich running condition (too much fuel or not enough air). Take the air filter out and see if the running improves, if so then simply replace the air filter element. DO NOT operate your equipment without the air filter element installed.
 
  #31  
Old 11-16-08, 06:06 AM
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Husky 2148 with B&S 385777 engine

I seem to have the same problem as many of the Husky 2148 owners. Ran fine for 2 years, but now cannot get it to stop from spewing black smoke.
Have checked the valves, compression, new air cleaner, new plugs, cleaned carb. Do all that and it runs for maybe an hour before starting it's old tricks. Plugs are black, engine smokes.
One clue: oil level seems higher than when I changed it. Can the carb spill fuel into crankcase? (and why). Float may be too loose and spill extra gas when engine vibrates. I'll check the float and try to do a vacuum test.
Another clue: The replacement B&S air filter I find at Lowe's lists that it is good up to 20 HP engines, while this one is 21 hp. This would explain strangling the engine, but would not explain a rising oil level. I will try the larger Koehler and see if that helps.
Another item that I find puzzling: The fuel filter seems empty most of the time. But this would lead to running lean, not rich???
 
  #32  
Old 11-17-08, 12:57 AM
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The fuel filter level is normal.

It sounds to me like gas is getting into your oil, due to a leaking needle and seat in the carburetor, which will definitely cause a rich condition not to mention loss of lubricity of the oil in the crankcase.
 
  #33  
Old 06-28-09, 10:34 AM
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I have the same mower/engine Husky w/ B&S 21 hp Vanguard.
I have had the same problems as many of you.
I started out with the easy fixes (spark plugs, air filter, oil and filter change) these did not work.
I was still getting fuel dribbling out of the carb, so I took it apart again, cleaned it again, checked to see if the float had fuel in it...it did not, inspected the needle, it looked o.k.
Next I suspected the valves, so I did a compression test 175 on the left side but only 15 on the right!!!
It seems as though I found the problem but not the source.
So I procceded to remove the valve cover and valves, heads, I noticed that there was a black burnt look on the piston face and the valve stem. I was going to just adjust both of the valves on this side, but once getting this far I started thinking about the pressure being super low and that there may be another problem causing this. So I inspected the rods, stems, pistons, exhaust pipes going to muffler, etc. it all looks pretty good.....I guess!

QUESTIONS: can a very small amount of carbon and/or debris cause this extremely low pressure (15)?

Since it is stripped down this far is there anything else I can look for?

Is it possible that there isn't enough spark to burn off all of the fuel on this side?

What is the best thing to clean the valves and heads with?

OBSERVATIONS: On the side with low pressure the springs have a purple tint to them.

The long black nut that tightens down the rocker arm was very loose, I noticed this when I first removed the valve cover, so I tightened it down and the pressure was still only 15.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

James
 
  #34  
Old 06-28-09, 11:25 PM
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Are the valve clearances acceptable on that cylinder?

Do the valves move freely in the head?
 
  #35  
Old 06-29-09, 02:02 PM
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Thanks for such a quick response Cheese.

Are the valve clearances acceptable on that cylinder? I'm not sure yet, I just bought a set of gauges to check it. I do need to reassemble the valves and put them back in to check them right?

Do the valves move freely in the head? I'm not exactly sure what move freely means, I mean they seem to.

I'm not an expert at this stuff but I do have some experience in working with small engines, and I never hesitate to try to do things myself or with the help of more experienced people like yourself.

What should I clean everything with? Does the purple tint on the springs mean anything to you?

Thanks again
James
 
  #36  
Old 06-29-09, 09:19 PM
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The purple tint might or might not mean the spring overheated. It could be from the original tempering process, or it could be heat damage. Take the spring off and compare it in height to the spring from the other side. If it is shorter (both removed and side by side on a table), then it has been damaged by heat. The valve should move freely enough in the head that it closes when you turn the head one way, and falls out when you turn it the other (with the spring removed).
 
  #37  
Old 07-06-09, 07:51 AM
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I hope everyone had a nice holiday.
Well I got it all put back together (with the exception of 2 long skinny bolts, which has me puzzled) and it actually runs.
The gas isn't dribbling out of the carb anymore, so I think I got it cleaned out good enough. It idles pretty smoothly until the load of the blades then it bogs down and eventually ramps back up to speed, in some long grass areas I had to go super slow, but I'm just happy to get that mess cut without the use of a trimmer!
After mowing the jungle I decided to test the compression, the side that had only 15 is now 90 and the side that had 175 now has 0....o.k something is wrong, but it runs better than it did....could be the carb getting a thorough cleaning I guess.

One thing I did not pay attention to is the rods, on each side there is one with a small ball at the tips, the other one is pretty much straight, I don't know which one goes to intake and which one goes to exhaust, I did not adjust the valves, just couldn't figure out where to put the gauge.
I put the springs on a flat surface as Cheese said and it is hard to tell but I think one of them is short (a purple one).

So here is what I'm thinking..the springs need to be replaced and the rods need to be put in the correct places and the valves need to be adjusted. Oh and those two long skinny bolts need a home.

Do you think the valves should be replaced also, I have not priced anything out yet, any thoughts?
 
  #38  
Old 07-06-09, 04:03 PM
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Had a nice holiday weekend, thankyou

Since you are this far into it, if you can locate your engine numbers you can use them here Operator Manuals, Illustrated Parts Lists & Wiring Diagrams - Briggs & Stratton to view an illustrated parts list of your engine and determine what parts and proper terminology for each, and possibly improve communication
 
  #39  
Old 07-13-09, 09:03 AM
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I'm happy to report that I was able to adjust the valves and it is running like new! Thanks in part to this forum, there is a lot of good info here.
I set the gap to a tight 0.05 (B&S specs call for 0.04-0.06) It is easy once you get the hang of it, the piston does need to be in exacly the right position. I'm getting 170 pressure on both sides now, and there is no gas dribbling out of the carb!

Beer 4U2

Thanks all!
 
  #40  
Old 07-17-09, 01:07 PM
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Same trouble here....

Just put on a NEW carburetor and it still floods, just like all of these other posts I have read. There is a nozzle on the top and one on the side with a plug on it. The top one is open. What is this for? Does any sort of vacuum line go to this, or is it for fuel overflow? I have rebuilt thousands of carbs over my years in this business, but have never come across this kind of problem. There's no logical reason for this. Could the fuel pump somehow go bad and INCREASE the pressure to the point of overriding the float?
 
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