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Another "oil leak" thread...I know ;)


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05-17-06, 07:34 PM   #1  
Another "oil leak" thread...I know ;)

I know there have been several oil leak threads, but I couldnt find what I needed in the ones I came across. I have pictures also.

My problem: I got this mower from a friend who did not take care of it at all. Oil was like black water it was so thin. Outside of mower was so gunked up the engine probably couldnt cool efficiently. Carburetor (sp?) was all gunked up. I knew it had a oil leak as he told me it did and I could see oil on the body. I cleaned up the entire outside of the mower. Looks almost brand new now. Took the carburetor and intake pipe off and cleaned them all up, inside and out. Put new gaskets on and put them back on. Got it running pretty good. Problem is, is there is still the oil leak. I cleaned it all up so I could see where the oil was coming from so I could fix it. Well, from what I can tell, it's coming from the front of the engine, where the cylinder head is.

See pics:











From what I can tell, oil is getting past the cylinder head. Now I have never taken an engine apart, big or small, so I dont know what I should do. I took this part off because I was going to replace the gasket, but from what I can tell, that won't help if I dont fix the oil leak coming past the cylinder head. Am I correct in this assumption? I am also planning on replacing the other main gasket at the bottom of the engine and the o-rings/seals for the oil fill neck.

Please, if anyone can help me, I would much appreciate it.

**EDIT** Forgot to mention my engine. It is 6.5HP but I cant remember if it is B&S or Tecumseh. Here is the link to the parts breakdown.



Last edited by xtremeskier97; 05-17-06 at 07:56 PM.
 
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05-17-06, 08:35 PM   #2  
My man,from what I can see you have a serous piston ring isue.
Ether the rings are shot,the piston ring groves are badly worn,or the cylinder itself is worn.
I haven't got a Tecumseh book but Reply back and give the model and spec number and someone will be able to look up and give you the tolerances on the cylinder,poston and ring gap.
Parts and a ball park fugure on cost.

And if you do decide to repair this youself clean all the carbon buildup around valves and piston and head and also do a complete valve job.

But personally,I'd chunk this one and buy a new one,if the cylinder is bad (out of round) it doesn't do any good what so ever to bore an engine with an aluminum block.

 
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05-17-06, 09:44 PM   #3  
In the last photo, the one of the head itself, it looks like pretty good evidence of a blown head gasket near the bottom of the head. I'd chenge the head gasket at the least. Does it seem to leak mainly when the engine is off? Is the oil level overfull?

I wouldn't write this tecumseh engine off just yet, because you said the engine had very thin oil in it before, which could be why you have so much carbon buildup in the cylinder. I bet it had gas in the oil due to a leaking carburetor. Does the oil smell like gas now? By the looks of your exhaust valve, the engine doesn't seem to be burning oil anymore.


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05-17-06, 09:55 PM   #4  
Thank you for the reply.

Model# is 143.006200 If you go to www3.sears.com and put that number in, you can view the engine breakdown that I posted and the parts list.

*EDIT*I was in mid post when cheese posted. I wasnt about to give up on this engine. I was going to change the head gasket and the flange gasket. The oil is not overfull, and I havent over filled it. Infact, it is low now because of it leaking. And it leaks while the engine is running and a little afterward. The oil does not smell like gas now because I changed the oil and gas.

Thank you for the reply.


Last edited by xtremeskier97; 05-17-06 at 10:16 PM.
 
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05-18-06, 03:04 AM   #5  
In this photo http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...r/P5174213.jpg it appears you have some cylinder scoring. You need to move the piston down the bore and have a close look at the cylinder condition. Without the ability of being right there, it's hard to say if you definitely have excessive wear at the cylinder (and rings) and should not, therefore, go any further with this engine.

 
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05-18-06, 07:14 AM   #6  
Ok. I will look at it in more depth when I get home today. It was dark and I was working by florescent light, so I couldnt get the best of pictures. I will take better pics when I get home and there is ample natural light (always better for pictures).

Should I move the cylinder all the way into the engine and then wipe it out with a towel to check for scoring or what? Im not sure what I can do and cant. I dont want to mess anything up worse, as the mower runs good right now, I just want to get the oil leak fixed if it is reasonable.

Thank you all for your help thus far.

 
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05-18-06, 09:55 AM   #7  
Ok,yes.wipe the cylinder out.Check for scoring.Put thumb on piston,see if it moves from side to side.if it will check with feeler guage.If a 0.07 blade will fit between piston and cylinder....well lets go from there.

Reply back on model and spec. numbers.As will as what you find.

 
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05-18-06, 10:44 AM   #8  
Posted By: repair_guy Ok,yes.wipe the cylinder out.Check for scoring.Put thumb on piston,see if it moves from side to side.if it will check with feeler guage.If a 0.07 blade will fit between piston and cylinder....well lets go from there.

Reply back on model and spec. numbers.As will as what you find.

I will check that out when I get home for sure.

Also, I posted the model# of the engine, but do you need the model# of the mower also? And what is the spec# you are referring to?

Thanks for the help!

 
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05-18-06, 05:15 PM   #9  
More pictures:













I did try to fit a .06 feeler guage beside the piston and it wouldnt go, though the piston does move side to side just a little.

The only "scoring" I think might be present is the 2 little marks on the bottom side of the cylinder and up a little on one side (see pics 43, 44, and 46). Im going back out right now to clean everything up, then maybe we can see something else.


Last edited by xtremeskier97; 05-18-06 at 05:46 PM.
 
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05-18-06, 05:50 PM   #10  
Pictures of it cleaned up...













The oil is not supposed to come past the cylinder head, is it? Cuz even when I crank the engine with my hand, it leaves a small amount of oil at the bottom of the bore.

Thanks for the help guys.

 
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05-18-06, 08:37 PM   #11  
Edited Tonight

 
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05-19-06, 02:54 AM   #12  
You have significant scoring in the bore and this means you also have considerable wear at the rings. I've seen worse though. I'm sure this engine will run but will be low on power (relative to new) but should still be useable. It will definitely use oil so be sure to check and add accordingly at EACH use. Clean the head, valve faces and top of piston, reassemble with a new head gasket, part number 37796, and you should be OK, other than a spark plug replacement much more often that usual (due to oil fouling).

 
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05-19-06, 08:41 AM   #13  
I have the gasket set already, and just replaced the spark plug before pulling it apart.

So what you are saying is that replacing the rings isnt going to help, right? Oil will still get past?

Im also replacing the bottom gasket after replacing the head gasket. Basically, im replacing all the gaskets that came in this set. Should I use a bit thicker oil? Will that help it from leaking as much? What oil do you recommend?

Thanks for all the help.

 
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05-19-06, 11:59 AM   #14  
If you're willing to gamble and you're already there (engine well apart) then you may as well replace the rings. It definitely will help to install them but you're likely to continue to burn oil. Just not as bad as before the ring job. You're pot committed, go all in! Stick with 30W oil.

 
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05-19-06, 12:11 PM   #15  
From sears the ring set is like $47. Do you know of any other place that has them for cheaper?

#42 in this picture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...smanEngine.jpg

 
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05-20-06, 09:41 AM   #16  
Locally!!! For about $26. Tecumseh part number 40006.

 
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05-20-06, 12:08 PM   #17  
Posted By: puey61 Locally!!! For about $26. Tecumseh part number 40006.

In the parts list for my mower at www3.sears.com there is a part # 42 and 42A. The 42A (40007) has a description of RING SET (.010" OS) where as the part number 42 (40006) has a description of RING SET (STD). What is the .010" OS? Should I get this instead, as it IS cheaper??

Thanks for the help.

**EDIT** I took some more pictures after removing the valve cover and gasket. Have a look.





Is there supposed to be oil in there? If not, how do you think it is getting in there?

Thanks guys.


Last edited by xtremeskier97; 05-20-06 at 01:50 PM.
 
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05-20-06, 11:18 PM   #18  
Yes, oil is supposed to be there. I agree...rings should help, but won't make it like new again. The .010 rings are for an engine that has been bored. I'd say go for the STD rings, but if the cylinder is worn too far, the ring end gap may still be too large with STD rings. It would still be better than what it is now. You don't want to cram .010 rings in it though, or you'll have broken rings or worse. I suppose if STD rings were still left too much end gap, you could grind the ends of the .010 rings to obtain proper ring end gap.


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05-21-06, 12:57 PM   #19  
Well how much does boring out the engine normaly cost? Is it worth it?

How does the oil get into the valve chamber?

Im gonna replace the mounting flange gasket also. Is there anything I should watch out for when changing it? Anything tricky about it?

 
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05-21-06, 04:25 PM   #20  
You can't put .010 oversize rings in a worn standerd bore. The circumference of the bore is a different dimension, therefore an oversize ring, with the gap adjusted properly, in a standerd bore would have an egg-shaped fit to the cylinder wall', & smoke like a freight train

 
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05-21-06, 11:18 PM   #21  
Yeah, I know I shouldn't have said that, but it can and has been done with acceptable results given the circumstances. The ring doesn't become egg shaped. If the ring only bent in one spot, it would become slightly egg shaped, but it bends around the entire circumfrence like a backing ring on a hydraulic ram o-ring. Now if you were trying to put .040" rings in a standard bore you might be flexing the ring beyond its range and distort the shape too much, but we're only talking .010" here, and that in a bore that could be .005" over already. Not that this is necessarily the case with the engine in question here.

There haven't been many occasions I had to rig and engine with a patch job like this, or even many occasions when I would even consider it, but it's been done, and if I get over limit, or close to over limit ring gap with std rings, but can get closer to .030" with .010 oversized, I'll use the oversized, ground to fit. Granted, the piston is sloppy in the cylinder by this time, ring lands are loose, and the owner of the engine has been made well aware that this is a patch, not a repair. This kind of thing might be done on a piece of equipment that only has to run a little while...long enough to accomplish whatever task, and then the owner is done with it forever. Sometimes I get one in that's so bad it won't even run because of the oil that is blowing into the carb through the PCV. Usually it's a contractor who is the one to say, "just do whatever you have to to make it run long enough to finish the job I'm working on".

Anyway, I think you can put std rings in your engine xtremeskier97. Your bore will probably accomodate std rings. It's not worth boring the engine. Machine shop cost, plus new oversized piston, oversized rings, and the fact that you'll still have a used lower end engine just don't make it very reasonable to do.

EDITED::: I just looked at the newer pictures, and the bore doesn't look to be worn out oversized (no ridge seen), just scored pretty good. STD rings should give the proper end gap.

I also want to add that using oversized rings to compensate for wear is not orthodox, and I don't want to give the wrong impression to others that this is a repair of standard procedure. Shoot, I shouldn't have mentioned it, lol.


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Last edited by cheese; 05-21-06 at 11:55 PM.
 
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05-22-06, 07:20 AM   #22  
Ok...thanks for the replies.

I finally got the flange off last night...didnt think it would be as hard to get off as it was. Just have to keep working it past the crankshaft until it finally came off. Now that I see inside the engine (never seen inside an engine before) it looks pretty simple really. Not very complex. I was worried that I would have a hard time with timing, but even that isnt complicated. Just line up the marks and thats it.

Yeah, I really dont want to spend a bunch of money on this engine, as it is an old one (few years at least). I have spent less than $10 on gaskets so far and the rest were essentials (spark plug, air filter, oil change) and time. I like doing this kind of stuff. I need to get a new muffler in the near future. Im also going to go ahead and replace the rings with standard rings as money allows. I am holding a friends mower right now until he gets a storage unit for all his stuff so I will use his till I get mine back up and running. Not to mention I have another mower in the garage needing a carb cleanout and I just finished cleaning up another friends mower who had gas in the carb and tank. Four mowers in the garage kindof makes for cramped quarters. But now that I have my workbench built (will post pics of that in the woodworking section here soon) I have much more space to work neatly.

Is there some sort of manual that I can follow for "rebuilding" this engine? Something that tells me what order the rings go in, torque specs, and so on?

Thanks guys.

 
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08-14-06, 11:40 AM   #23  
Posted By: xtremeskier97 Is there some sort of manual that I can follow for "rebuilding" this engine? Something that tells me what order the rings go in, torque specs, and so on?

Thanks guys.
Anyone know of such a resource? Even a free video online that I could watch for some pointers? It's been a while and I have to get this engine back together, and Im afraid since it's been a while that I may forget where something goes.

I have the engine almost completely apart, and Im wondering what I can use to clean the inside of the engine. Should I use gasoline or some other solvent? Of course I would let it completely dry out before putting it back together. Even if it doesnt run like new, Id like it to look as close to new as possible.

Thank you.

 
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08-14-06, 04:08 PM   #24  
If you didn't have it apart yet.
A thought on cleaning the inside of a engine for those engines that are disgusting(more like tar than oil), drain as much of the gunk out as possible refill with 1/2 30w oil and 1/2 Automatic Transmission Fluid(ATF) Type-F(the cheap stuff) let run at idle for 5min. drain and repeat the operation until the oil that is removed is as clean as when it went in about 3-4 changes. The engine will be as clean on the inside as if it were new. The detergent in the ATF does a good job. I have used it for years, it will cure sticking hydralic lifters on older cars in about 10 min., just don't overfill the crankcase. Have a nice day. Geo

 
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08-14-06, 10:52 PM   #25  
Trans fluid has alot less detergents than engine oil...... it does have dispersants..... which is close to detergents though...... Trans fluid was a old trick when trans fluid actually had more additives then engine oil... transmission doesn't need much detergents to keep it clean...

If there was no sludge or anything in the engine, I wouldn't mess with it.... you could (and I have tried it once) try some marvel mystery oil in the oil to clean it real quick.

 
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08-16-06, 11:48 AM   #26  
Ok...thanks for the tips if the engine wasnt apart. Ill keep those in mind for the future. But mine is apart...and has been for more than a month in the garage. There is all kinds of dust and dirt in the air, and Im sure in the engine. I need to know what to use to clean it out. Is giving it a bath in gasoline not a good idea? Any other chemical/cleaning agent I could use?

Thanks guys.

 
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08-16-06, 08:58 PM   #27  
Be better to use clear kerosene..... just for rinsing it out of course.

 
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08-16-06, 09:52 PM   #28  
Ok. Thank you for the tip. Know where I can get kerosene from?

 
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08-17-06, 08:45 AM   #29  
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Konfucious Say....

Posted By: cheese Yeah, I know I shouldn't have said that, but it can and has been done with acceptable results given the circumstances.
Shoot, I shouldn't have mentioned it, lol.
Konfucios say "Nevermind how" LOL

xtremeskier97- Here is a link(well it would be a link if my html code could be turned on...??? Mods?) to a .pdf Tecumseh manual that should give you the info you want http://www.cpdonline.com/692509.pdf

 
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08-17-06, 12:18 PM   #30  
It will probably still apply, but my model number isnt listed in the rear of that manual (143.006200).

 
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08-17-06, 12:27 PM   #31  
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Posted By: xtremeskier97 It will probably still apply, but my model number isnt listed in the rear of that manual (143.006200).
It may or may not cover your exact engine. Your engine was built by Tecumseh FOR Sears (Craftsman) most likely for a particular application Sears requested and may not even be directly supported by Tecumseh.

There is still valuable info that will apply Starting on page one of that manual is also Engine Identification, its possible you may find other #'s that would help more correctly identify your engine. Something starting with LEV, LAV or perhaps ECV...


Last edited by Azis; 08-17-06 at 12:41 PM.
 
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