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Honda Harmony II Lawnmower Surging


Terminator20's Avatar
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06-02-06, 01:10 PM   #1  
Honda Harmony II Lawnmower Surging

Model#HRT2162TDA
Serial#MZCG-6724588

I have a Honda Harmony II that I have been having surging problems with. My first thought was that the carb was the culprit. So I took the carb completely apart and cleaned it very thourghly all the way down to the float and needle and seat. I also cleaned the butterfly openings! So I went back to make sure everything was cleaned and it was, there is no spec of dirt or varnish in any part of the carb! So then I cleaned the muffler bore to get the carbon out of it, it is perfectly clear now. I put some rust neutraliser on the coil cause there was a bit of rust on it.

I lubricated all moving parts including throttle, throttle mouth on carb, and of course the governer linkages without touching it. I of course perged the fuel tank of the old gas and put new fresh gas in. I cleaned and gapped the sparkplug so that it would fire but there is visible rust on the outside of the sparkplug, the white area of the plug, and Seems to still fire fine I think. There is what looks like an adjustment on the carb with a metal limiter on it. When the engine is running and I move this adjusment, it does not seem to stop the surging.

This mower used to be owned by my landlord and I think this was the Honda mower that somebody ran diesal fuel in it by accident. He owned two of the exact same Hondas and now I own this one. Please help me to figure this all out cause its just so frustrating cause I am not winning the battle!

PS: I replaced all the outside carb gaskets so it has nothing to do with that. Bolt O-ring seems to be in perfect condition and there is no gas leaking out of carb at all. Needle seemed to be in perfect condition and float was in good condition. Did not here slushing sounds when shaken near ear...

PS2: In my opinion, I think the governer is causing the surging cause you can easily see the governer arm moving back and forth as the engine surges. When moved by hand and engine is off, governer arm seems to move freely , meaning it aint stuck... Linkages are in good condition...

 
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06-03-06, 12:22 PM   #2  
Since the first post I have recleaned the carb again! And its spotless as it could be, I aint taking it off the engine for the 4th time! Also since the first post I have replaced the sparkplug with a brand new NGK plug for that engine. And guess what? Still the same surging BS!

As far as I can see, this engine is ripe for the dump, thats why that manager wanted to take it to the dump. But I want to work with it some more in hopes I can get it to run right. If need be, I can get a new carb for $30.00 and a new coil module for $20.00 I just want to cover all the bases first before I dump that kind of money into it, I have already spent a bit for the gaskets and new plug.

Cheese, Pue61, or Azis, Please Help Me!

PS: The surging does not happen when at full throttle, if you take it off full throttle to even 80% throttle, it starts to surge and surges really bad if its at 50% or less and it won't idle at low throttle, it will die...

 
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06-03-06, 01:57 PM   #3  
i know you said you cleaned the carb, but did you clean the main nozzle and main jet ? you have to remove them to clean them properly.
i don't see much of a problem anyway, as you should be running the mower at full throttle while you are using it.

 
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06-03-06, 02:20 PM   #4  
Yep, when I took the carb off again I made sure to remove the nozzle and shoot carb cleaner up into the jet and all around it. I drenged it in carb cleaner, heck, carb cleaner was going right through the jet and shooting out through some orphice on the other side of carb! And then I used compressed air from my compressor and shot the air up the jet. The nozzle is equally as clean by the way.

I have been doing allot of research on these Honda engines online, both here in this forum and other places. And almost all people who are having trouble, are having surging trouble. I read many comments about buying new carbs and stuff. Though I have read conflicting comments from those who say Honda engines are reliable, but I am just not seing that as true. So many people are having the same trouble like the Honda post bellow mine! And the Harmony II transmitions, OMG!

 
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06-03-06, 10:07 PM   #5  
Surging Honda

Hi, I was having a surging, dying problem with my Briggs riding mower. Thought it was the carb too, but recalled it would start up again after a few minutes, and run for a minute or so, then surge again and die. I removed the gas line before the filter, and no gas. I then loosened the gas cap, and gas flowed. The hole in the gas cap was plugged up causing a vacuum, thus the surging, dying problem. Hope this helps, Jerbear

 
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06-04-06, 08:00 AM   #6  
Good answer as many people forget to look at that. Fortunetly, I already have blasted carb cleaner and compressed air at that and when you remove the drain bolt on the carb, you can see the gas flowing into and out the carb.

I have decided to buy a new carb for this engine considering it only costs like $30.00, Strange ha? All the other honda parts cost an arm and a leg yet the carb is only $30.00 Go Figure...

cheese, puey61, where the heck are you guys? You guys have not replied to any of the new threads including mine?

 
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06-06-06, 01:53 AM   #7  
Been out of town since thursday. Went fishing in Panama City.

The carb is still the problem. Did you soak it in a bath type cleaner?


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06-06-06, 08:46 AM   #8  
How'd it go?

Can you let me know if the new carb fixes your problem? I'm having a problem with a honday harmony (see Honda Mower only runs when choked). I have taken apart the carb four times and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I have not use the bath cleaner b/c of the cost. If I can replace the carb for $30 and it fixes the problem, it will be worth it.

Thanks!

 
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06-08-06, 08:31 AM   #9  
Update...

I am happy to let you all know that I got my new carb yesterday and I installed it! She started right up on first pull and she does not surge at any throttle level! This is a cheap fix for anybody who has one of these Honda's. If you have a carb on a honda and no mater how much you clean it, does not help, just get a $30.00 carb. When installing your new carb, make sure that you have all the gaskets. If any of them are worn, replace them.

I also fixed my self propell problem. All that was needed there was a cable adjustment so that when you pulled the lever, it pulled the clutch all the way on the tranny. This is also a simple fix for those of you who think you might have tranny problems. To adjust the cable, loosen the nut that holds the throttle onto the handle bars, then pull the clutch cable towards the mower a bit. Then tighten down the nut.

 
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04-09-07, 01:31 PM   #10  
Replace the Carb! End Discussion

Had my HRB216HXA for 5 years - no problems at all. This year it immediately started "hunting" wouldn't idle, etc. After reading this blog, I went to the dealer, bought a carb and 3 gaskets (#13, and 2 #14). Guess what - it started on one pull & runs fine!!! The story here is simple, do NOT waste $$$ cleaning or having it "fixed" for $35 you can DIY. One minor snag, balancing the various gaskets while you reassemble it! Lots of fun!!

Posted By: bigwannabe Can you let me know if the new carb fixes your problem? I'm having a problem with a honday harmony (see Honda Mower only runs when choked). I have taken apart the carb four times and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I have not use the bath cleaner b/c of the cost. If I can replace the carb for $30 and it fixes the problem, it will be worth it.

Thanks!

 
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04-09-07, 04:58 PM   #11  
FYI, Hondo, that thread is nearly a year old. In your situation, because you own a Honda and Honda generally does not have carburetor rebuild kits, you are basically forced to buy a complete carburetor. In most cases, with other makes of engines, and the fact that this is a do-it-yourselfer site, most people that visit this site look foward to the challenge of rebuilding a carburetor and gaining the experience and knowledge of doing such. And, even in your case, provided you don't NEED any parts, it is possible to simply soak and reassemble the carb and have a well running machine.

 
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04-24-07, 11:12 AM   #12  
Heck I think $35 is an awesome repair bill no matter who does it. My question is...for some of us that are NOT "motorheads" (like us single moms!) how difficult is it to do something like replace a carbuerator? Is that an all day job? 3 hours? 30 min? How do you know what to do? Any good guides online that y'all can recommend?

I'm asking because once again, my dang blower (yeah I know - different machine, but still interested in knowing how to deal with the mower - just in case) will not start and I assume that it will be, once again, the dang gas/varnish issue. Seems like since I am going to be facing the same issue every spring, I ought to be able to fix it myself instead of paying the shop $80!!

 
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04-24-07, 02:08 PM   #13  
Best way to deal with old fuel is not to let it get old. Use a fuel stabilizer in your fuel, and start your unit every so often so the gas in the carburetor gets flushed out. If you have a purge pump on your carburetor, put in fresh fuel mix and pump it several times to circulate fresh fuel into the carburetor and then try to start it.

If you are fairly mechanically inclined then the job should take about an hour or so for a novice. Someone with experience can probably do the job in half the time or less.

Good Luck

 
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04-24-07, 02:25 PM   #14  
"Best way to deal with old fuel is not to let it get old. Use a fuel stabilizer in your fuel, and start your unit every so often so the gas in the carburetor gets flushed out."

Yeah, I know. I know that I should do all that stuff...but frankly I am happy when I remember to get the trash out on trash day. The last time I use the blower/trimmer/lawn mower is the last time I think about it. I guess I need a "rent a husband". :-)

 
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08-06-07, 08:14 AM   #15  
Honda Harmony II Surging FIXED!

I have a Honda Harmony II (Man# HRR216) that was having surging and poor idling problems as well. After changing the oil, air filter and seeing a slight improvement I bought a new spark plug. Viola! It runs like a champ again. I had previously removed and cleaned the old plug, but that didn't seem to help at all. If that hadn't work, my next step (based on these forums) would have been to install a new carburetor for $35. By the way, I was able to get Honda lawnmower blades and air filters at xxxxxxxxxxx.com


Last edited by DIYaddict; 08-06-07 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Soliciting web site edited out/this is not allowed
 
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04-14-08, 09:19 PM   #16  
Carb assembly

When you take the carb apart and clean it, make sure to put the jet back in the right way. It will surge forever if the jet is upside down. The repair manual can be confusing when assembling the carb.

 
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04-26-08, 01:00 PM   #17  
Posted By: farrellt When you take the carb apart and clean it, make sure to put the jet back in the right way. It will surge forever if the jet is upside down. The repair manual can be confusing when assembling the carb.
Which way does the jet go? One end has a vertical hole that runs through the jet and the other side has a hole that runs 90 degrees to the jet. I have surging at idle with my honda. It runs fine for a few minutes, then it starts surging at full throttle and then it won't idle at the slow speed setting, it seems to run a little smoother on full choke. When the engine is under full load (blades spinning), it runs fine, no surging. I pulled the carb and cleaned everything also.

 
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05-22-08, 06:57 PM   #18  
Posted By: razcob Which way does the jet go? One end has a vertical hole that runs through the jet and the other side has a hole that runs 90 degrees to the jet. I have surging at idle with my honda. It runs fine for a few minutes, then it starts surging at full throttle and then it won't idle at the slow speed setting, it seems to run a little smoother on full choke. When the engine is under full load (blades spinning), it runs fine, no surging. I pulled the carb and cleaned everything also.
I am confused as to how to take out the carb. My guess is that once I take out the air filter I have to remove the 3 nuts that is attaching the plastic air filter housing to the body. Is that correct? Please help.

Thanks

 
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05-22-08, 10:09 PM   #19  
lawnharmony: Assuming we're talking about a Honda Harmony mower, you'll also need to remove the bolt further back that holds the control mechanism plate to the engine. Otherwise, that plate traps the carb between it and the engine. Hope that makes sense.

I realize this thread is rather old, but I'll add my 0.02 anyway. Seems like many times the throttle shaft wears causing a vacuum leak, which is why they engine will surge. A good diagnotic tool is to spray some carb cleaner around the throttle shaft w/ the engine running. If it's leaking the vacuum will pull the carb cleaner in and the engine will run better for a few seconds.

A carb cleaning or rebuild won't fix a leaking throttle shaft. At that point you can only replace it.

 
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05-24-08, 05:54 PM   #20  
Posted By: PaulP lawnharmony: Assuming we're talking about a Honda Harmony mower, you'll also need to remove the bolt further back that holds the control mechanism plate to the engine. Otherwise, that plate traps the carb between it and the engine. Hope that makes sense.

I realize this thread is rather old, but I'll add my 0.02 anyway. Seems like many times the throttle shaft wears causing a vacuum leak, which is why they engine will surge. A good diagnotic tool is to spray some carb cleaner around the throttle shaft w/ the engine running. If it's leaking the vacuum will pull the carb cleaner in and the engine will run better for a few seconds.

A carb cleaning or rebuild won't fix a leaking throttle shaft. At that point you can only replace it.
Thanks, Paul. It is a Harmony II HRS 216. I took it to somebody who does lawnmower repair on the side amd after 3 hours of labor and a new carb he was still not satisfied the way it was running... so he will work on it some more today and drive 27 miles to return it tomorrow. What I liked about this person is that he is a straight guy who did not try to dupe me.

The carb costed 46 bucks including tax and I have to pay him $65 including carb and labor.

The problem now is sputtering of the engine.. it does not run as smoothly as it does when on choke. He has cleaned everything and now will take a look in the muffler because we found some rat nest material in the mower. So, the muffler maybe clogged a little. In jis opinion the engine is not getting enough gas for some reason.

Anyway, I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping everything would be good tomorrow.

I did not think I had the right tools for the job.

 
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10-12-08, 05:53 PM   #21  
Honda Harmony surge...

I cut the air mixture screw limiter off with a Dremel tool cutoff wheel. Counted how many turns in to GENTLY seat the screw (mine was 1 7/8) and removed it. Then I sprayed Gumout and blew compressed air in all the orifices. Put all back together (with the air screw 1 7/8 out from seated) and it ran perfectly.....
I suspect a partially clogged idle passage was the problem - worth a try before you spend money on a replacment carb.

P.S. Do not soak this carb overnight in any nasty auto type carb cleaner - ther are plastic parts which will probably dissolve by moring!

 
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08-27-10, 03:44 PM   #22  
Help finding carb

Hi guys. I have been on every mower parts website and can't find an intact carb assembly for my Honda Harmony mower. Any ideas on where to get it?

Thanks - Spritzer

 
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06-25-11, 10:58 PM   #23  
New Blade Worked for me!

Hello,
I also have a Honda motor but a GCV-160 and i cleaned the crap outa the carb twice. Still Surging (hunting), cleaned everything else... same thing.. oil, spark plug, air filter, gas etc...nada, still messed up!
One thing that i did not change was the mower blade. So i bought a NEW blade, installed it and BOOM! believe it or not, no more surging (hunting)...

I would say start with the mower blade 1st. That should be the first thing you replace.

 
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06-25-11, 11:12 PM   #24  
The only way a new blade can make any difference is if your old one was so worn out that it's way too short to give the extra flyweight action needed. I suspect that while you had the mower tipped to change the blade, the junk in the carb came loose or some other coincidence.


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06-26-11, 07:02 AM   #25  
Honda Engine Abnormal Sound

The engine on my Honda Harmony 215 sounds abnormal; my amateur opinion is that it is running faster or slower depending on the position of a silver rod with a small hook on one end. The other end attaches to a black piece closer to the front of the mower that moves forward and backward depending on the movement of the rod. The rod on the one end is attached to the black piece so maybe the other end became detached and/or the piece it should attach to is broken and possibly missing. I can't locate a diagram to repair the engine. Any help is greatly appreciated. I have a picture I can e-mail but I don't know how to load it via a URL. Perhaps the rod attaches to a govenor? and should attach to something else. The mower engine sound does not change when the engine lever is on slow or fast I think because the rod position stays the same ( nothing makes it move forward or backward because the one end is not attached to anything). Thanks in advance!


Last edited by jonsbus; 06-26-11 at 07:18 AM. Reason: trying to better describe the issue
 
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06-26-11, 10:52 AM   #26  
There is a little shaft coming out of the side of the engine behind the metal control box on the side where the throttle cable connects. This shaft has a lever on it with a hole in the top. The throttle linkage connects to this hole, then to the throttle shaft on the carb (the shaft closer to the engine on the carb). The other lever with a hole in the end that is actuated by a screw that is in the previous lever is the choke lever. A linkage goes from it to the choke shaft on the carb (the shaft closest to the air filter opening). Hope this helps some.


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09-04-11, 07:58 AM   #27  
Surging Solved!

I purchased a new $700.00 Honda mower thru Home Depot in the spring. Gradually it began to surge more and more. After talking to the local Home Depot folks and learning there would be a non-refundable $35.00 diagnostic fee plus me without my mower for 3 weeks minimum I decided to just go ahead and buy the $16.00 replacement carb and install it myself. After doing this I mowed the yard once but noticed a slight surging still going on. I refilled the tank and the mower ran for about 3-4 minutes and then began to surge heavily before dying completely as if it had run out of gas. I removed the 10mm bolt from the bottom of the float bowl and the carb was indeed empty! When I loosened the gas cap fuel began to flow immediately. I decided that the high tech eco-friendly Honda fuel cap is not properly venting the tank and with a full tank the thing simply vacuum locked until I released the gas cap. I took the cap off, took out my drill and smallest drill bit and drilled a small hole directly in the center of the gas cap...PROBLEM SOLVED! RUNS PERFECTLY!

In hindsight...I think my original carb is/was fine. Poor venting of the fuel tank is something everyone should check..easy enough to loosen the cap and see if your surge goes away.

 
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09-04-11, 07:43 PM   #28  
Please let me know where you found a carb for $16.00... I need one for my mower & that sounds like the best deal so far,,, Thanks, Roger

 
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11-01-11, 07:06 AM   #30  
I know I'm hitting an old thread but I'm glad I finally found the info I'm looking for. I took apart the carb on my honda motor (Husky mower) last weekend b/c it's doing the same thing as explained here. Unfortunately I didn't take note of the air screw location and just took it right out. This might be a $30 lesson for me!! I think this mower might need an overhaul based on all your posts too.

 
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11-01-11, 09:22 AM   #31  
Reset the screw by turning it in until it lightly bottoms out, then back it out 1 1/2 to 2 full turns.


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05-18-12, 03:52 PM   #32  
Harmony HRB 215 SXA Hunting

My Harmony 215 hrb SXA surging/hunting. New plug. New air filter and pre new oil. Mower not tipped to drain oil into air filter. Checked to make sure gas cap is vented.starts and runs on choke ONLY!My carb is getting fuel. How do I remove 2 wire linkages and spring without bending them? Trying to take carb off to clean it? Help me Cheese!
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Last edited by Claimer; 05-18-12 at 04:09 PM.
 
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05-18-12, 06:47 PM   #33  
I believe on this engine, you have to remove the studs that the carb is mounted to so that you can tilt it to get the linkages out. Take everything out of the way of the carb, then put one nut on the stud about 1/2 inch, then put the other nut on and tighten the two nuts together tightly. Now you can turn the nut and it will unscrew the entire stud. Do this to the other stud as well and you can un-hook the linkage.


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04-19-14, 01:44 PM   #34  
Stupid Carburetor Question

I ought to know this answer. I also cannot find the information anywhere. I, too, have a Harmony II that is surging and, also, the carburetor is the prime suspect. I removed it and disassembled it. The main jet appears to have a built-in obstruction - very solid when tapped on with a wire. Is this manufactured this way, or have I got something very solid and very foreign lodged in the jet? I was expecting to see a clear passage. I appreciate any advice.
MAS

 
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04-19-14, 02:56 PM   #35  
I don't recall anything obstructing the jet. Shine a strong light and see what is in there.


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07-15-14, 02:22 PM   #36  
Replaced carburetor still surging

I have read all the posts on surging Honda Harmony mowers. I took the carb apart, cleaned it re-installed. Worked perfect for 1 day and then started surging again just as bad. Took the groups advise and bought the $21.00 dollar new carb. Installed with new gaskets. Now very hard to start and when it does run, surging badly and gas runs from new carb like the float needle is stuck. Don't see any adjustment on that. Any Ideas?? Thanks

 
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07-15-14, 04:08 PM   #37  
Sounds like you got a bad carb or you have trash/water coming from the tank.


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07-05-16, 01:06 PM   #38  
Motorhead-47 Rules

To Motorhead-47
it is now 5 years since you posted so know that your wisdom will be passed down the generations of the DIY. Cleaned out gas cap and my 20 year old Honda runs great.
Thanks.

 
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