Ariens lawnmower won't stop smoking

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  #1  
Old 06-15-06, 05:24 AM
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Ariens lawnmower won't stop smoking

OK Lets try this the right way.
I have a ariens 5Hp self propelled lawnmower that won't stop smoking. I cleaned the crankcase breather tube no good.The air filter is no longer getting full of oil.So whats next is it the rings or the valves if its the valves I might as well toss it cause I would need a machine shop to do it and if I wanted to do it myself the tools would run 457 dollars But if its the rings from what v8driver said in the post help it sounds like I could do it but somthing does not make sinse if the piston cylinder walls looked ok than I need to hone it out. Why?I need to know this before I rip the engine apart to replace the rings.
 

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  #2  
Old 06-15-06, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lexmarks567
OK Lets try this the right way.
I have a ariens 5Hp self propelled lawnmower that won't stop smoking. I cleaned the crankcase breather tube no good.The air filter is no longer getting full of oil.So whats next is it the rings or the valves if its the valves I might as well toss it cause I would need a machine shop to do it and if I wanted to do it myself the tools would run 457 dollars But if its the rings from what v8driver said in the post help it sounds like I could do it but somthing does not make sinse that my part guy said. He said that if the piston cylender walls looked ok than I need to hone it out. Why?I need to know this before I rip the engine apart to replace the rings.

P.S is that nicer.
hone it to create a cross hatch for good oiling...

the rings can be install with a couple flat head screwdrivers, hold the rings down while you pop em in, the honing can be done if you are steady, will very very fine sand paper (of course rinse the engine out after) the valves wouldn't cause the smoking you have..... do you have a autozone? don't they have that loan a tool thing? And borrow a torque wrench for the connecting rod endcap.... I wouldn't toss the mower part.... just the engine... and replace it with a good used.... I'm just not a fan of tecumsehs is all....
 
  #3  
Old 06-15-06, 04:23 PM
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Bob

Lex

It's really a good project to have a leakdown test done to determine what the lower end of the cylinder is like. What Cheese and Puey have pointed out in other threads is true. That particular test, done by a shop would give you pretty accurate information on the condition of the cylinder. Based on that information you could decide whether to tear it down and restore it or discard it and save yourself a lot of work.

If this is something you want to do a lot of it also gives you a framework in which to do other projects.

Hope this helps
 
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Old 06-15-06, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by marbobj
Lex

It's really a good project to have a leakdown test done to determine what the lower end of the cylinder is like.
Where Would I have that done a local small engine repair shop cause theres one about 1-2 blocks from me. Also how much does that run.
 
  #5  
Old 06-15-06, 07:13 PM
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Bob

I would call and ask.

The price would vary considerably depending where you are and what kind of relationship you have with the shop. A lot of small engine shops also sell the repair parts. If the one that does the test is the one you buy your repair parts from you'll likely get everything for the best price.

You would want to establish a breakeven point on your project. This is to say evaluate what the mower would be worth to sell, the value of your labor and finally your outright expenditures. If you put more into it than you can get out of it, obviously it would be better to scrap that engine rather than repairing it.

Hope this helps
 
  #6  
Old 06-16-06, 02:32 PM
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Well I changed the oil and it helped a little it was not smoking as much but you could still smell it and see it.
 
  #7  
Old 06-17-06, 12:27 PM
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Anytime you install rings in an engine, the cylinder should be honed. If it is honed properly, it will make small scratches in the cylinder at the proper angles to aid in cylinder lubrication and proper break in of the new rings and cylinder. If there are any scratches in the cylinder that you can feel, then it is probably damaged too much to expect rings to completely solve the problem, but they may help.
 
  #8  
Old 06-18-06, 03:11 PM
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It sound to me like this mower has been stored in a position(hanging) with the cylinder on the botton, oils has seeped to fill the combustion chamber, when placed on a level surface the oil has exited by the valves leaving a big mess. I would try removing the spark plug and cleaning the combustion chamber with carb cleaner and brake cleaner. Crank the motor with the plug out and catch the cleaner on a paper towel, repeat the process until the cleaner that is deposited on the paper towel is clean. Then start the motor and let it run at low speed so it can burn the accumulated oil that is setting in the exhaust system, this will take appx. 1hr of running. Have a nice day. Geo
 
  #9  
Old 06-18-06, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by geogrubb
... Then start the motor and let it run at low speed so it can burn the accumulated oil that is setting in the exhaust system, this will take appx. 1hr of running...
An hour of running to clean a muffler? Any old oil should burn off as soon as the muffler reaches operating temperature. If that mower is still smoking 5 minutes after it's started, I'll bet the problem is rings or valve seals, and no amount of running will cure those symptoms.
 
  #10  
Old 06-19-06, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JLOpower
An hour of running to clean a muffler? Any old oil should burn off as soon as the muffler reaches operating temperature. If that mower is still smoking 5 minutes after it's started, I'll bet the problem is rings or valve seals, and no amount of running will cure those symptoms.
Yeah.... wouldn't take a hour to clean the muffler of oil..... one of my engines has a bad valve stem oil leak and gets the muffler a little wet at the bottom, it starts to burn not very long after its started, and takes about 30 secs to a min. to burn it off. Valve stem leaks usually leak when the engines off, burns off and won't cause oil burning while running...... rings will.
 
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Old 06-19-06, 03:37 PM
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Gentlemen; this is not a debate just a response of explaination.
The 2 mowers I made the mistake of hanging to save space both had Tec engines and large canister mufflers. It took a long time to clean the oil from the mufflers, the second one I tilted on its side to drain oil from the muffler. The whole ordeal was quite a mess and great learning experience. Have a nice day. Geo
 
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Old 06-19-06, 03:50 PM
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Then start the motor and let it run at low speed so it can burn the accumulated oil that is setting in the exhaust system, this will take appx. 1hr of running.
Yeah I ran it buy my guy and I asked him are you Buying this and he said and this is from the email he sent me I coped and past it

"No, I don't buy that and have never had to do it. I have has some real pos's and I just let them run till the smoke clears. that only takes like 5-10 minutes. If its still smoking after that it has problems" thats from the email he sent me I will replace the rings If it does not sell at the garage sale but right know I got to pay 38 for a carb to be rebuilt on that murry lawnmower that I posted.
 
  #13  
Old 06-19-06, 08:07 PM
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From your first post it sounds like you overfilled it with oil. check your dip stick.
 
  #14  
Old 06-20-06, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mikesmalleng
From your first post it sounds like you overfilled it with oil. check your dip stick.
Checked it it's fine.If it was overfilled it would be white not blue.Also changed the oil with 10W-40
 
  #15  
Old 06-20-06, 12:50 PM
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lexmarks567,

Before breaking apart the engine; check the valve cover breather element. If this reed valve is not working properly you will have the exact same syptoms. This valve must open completely on the intake stroke or oil will be forced past the piston due to increasing pressure inside the crank case. It also must close on the and exhaust stroke in order to maintain a vacum. Also, check for any air leaks in the crank case such as oil fill tube or breather gasket.

The breather is located on the side of the engine and covers the valve stems / springs. There are only two small screws and you will need a new gasket. If you can forward the engine numbers I can forward the part numbers. Also, I would recommend SAE 30 or 10W-30 for this engine. The 40 weight is a bit to thick...!

God Bless,
Dave 237
 
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Old 06-20-06, 02:19 PM
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ok heres some picks

the top spring compressed



bottom spring compressed



both at rest



don't know if this helps there kind of fuzzy theres also oil in there not much but some. is this where i was to look

heres the engine number and serial number along with the mower model and ser and it says do not excede 3000 RPM.

Engine model VL50 500003 SERIAL 2013B and is made by VECTOR TECUMSEH mower model 911044 SERIAL 00293 hope this helps and it says on the mower DO NOT EXCEAD 3000 RPM. Also 10W-40 too thick I thought it was too thin cause it poors like water.It a no name brand from the dollar store called city star.
 
  #17  
Old 06-20-06, 02:38 PM
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10w-40 acts like a 10 wieght in the cold, and a 40 at operating temp (w stands for winter not wieght) thats a multi weight oil, I use 10w-40 in one of mine... just to get rid of it, I'm not a fan of using no name brands, not a way to treat em right... but as long as it carries the latest specs.

That cover you took off to get to the springs is the breather.... lets the internal crankcase pressure out and vapors, but not oil..... when its worn out and faulty, it will pump oil into the carb. Your fine with the 10w-40 for right now.
 
  #18  
Old 06-20-06, 08:04 PM
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lexmarks567,

Don't be concerned with the valve springs. I think this is a two section breather however, it may not be. It should have a cover and behined this cover you should find the breather. If it's not a two section breather there will be just one piece.

The breather will have a round fiber disc facing the inside of the engine. After a good cleaning you should NOT be able to blow through the pipe into the breather but you should be able to suck air through the breather. If either of the above does not hold true I would suggest finding a local Tecumseh parts supplier and replace the entire breather with gasket/s.

As far oil is concerned; 10w-30 has less polymers than 10w-40which burn off with higher temps in air cooled engines. I don't like straight weight SAE 30 however, if synthetic is not an option OEM states SAE-30 or 10W-30 summer and 5W-30 or 10-W30 synthetic for winter. Oil weight increases with number (ie) 40 thicker than 30.

God Bless
Dave237
 
  #19  
Old 06-20-06, 08:39 PM
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Question What

OK now Im confused you said to remove the cover next to the valves and it had 2 screws holding it in place well this is that part and the only part I see that maches your description. So if this is not it were is it.Its not inside the valve spring chamber is it somewhere else in on the engine if so where I don't see it I had to remove the muffler to access the valve spring cover and thats the only part the maches you decription.
Originally Posted by dave237
lexmarks567,

Don't be concerned with the valve springs. I think this is a two section breather however, it may not be. It should have a cover and behined this cover you should find the breather. If it's not a two section breather there will be just one piece.

The breather will have a round fiber disc facing the inside of the engine. After a good cleaning you should NOT be able to blow through the pipe into the breather but you should be able to suck air through the breather. If either of the above does not hold true I would suggest finding a local Tecumseh parts supplier and replace the entire breather with gasket/s.

As far oil is concerned; 10w-30 has less polymers than 10w-40which burn off with higher temps in air cooled engines. I don't like straight weight SAE 30 however, if synthetic is not an option OEM states SAE-30 or 10W-30 summer and 5W-30 or 10-W30 synthetic for winter. Oil weight increases with number (ie) 40 thicker than 30.

God Bless
Dave237
 
  #20  
Old 06-21-06, 03:04 AM
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Your oil is likely the problem. It's too heavy and the breather assembly can't drain it off quick enough so it gets pushed into the combustion chamber (the path of least resistance) and gets burned off. The OEM's have done alot of homework and they recommend SAE30W for a reason. The only time you should use a multi viscosity oil is if it's recommended for a particular season or if, in the case of Kohler's Command engines with hydraulic valve lifters, it is necessary. I recommend using SAE5W30 SYNTHETIC. This can be used year-round regardless of the climate.
 
  #21  
Old 06-21-06, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by puey61
Your oil is likely the problem.
Well It was smoking before I changed it and the new oil had a slight improvment I was useing 10w-40 because the murry that im working on says to use it. It says use either 10w-30 or 10w-40 in the summer and its all I have I have about 3 quarts of it.But I will try it.
 
  #22  
Old 06-21-06, 08:59 AM
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lexmarks567,

The cover you removed is the breather. There should be a hose connected to this cover that runs to the air cleaner.

God Bless
Dave237
 
  #23  
Old 06-24-06, 09:38 PM
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Well since I changed the oil and it stop smoking(for a while) I sold it for 10 dollars at my yard sale I fired it up and was real smokey on the start but cleared up when it got up to speed and was doing the blue smoke again only not as much but he did not notice or care. it ran and sounded strong so I take it as a good sign thanks for your help.I think it started smoking again because I had it on its side trying to fix the self-propelled part but gave up. Theres a cable missing that engages the pully that tightins the belt that turns the drive pully.And the spring that resets the pully was wornout and kept coming out.When I engage the self-propelled handle the transmissin will engage but it won't move forward because the belt is not tight enough to tun the pully with any kind of load because the pully that tightins the belt would not engage.He said he would try and remve the gear so it was easyer to push.
 

Last edited by cheese; 06-25-06 at 12:35 AM.
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