B&S No throttle control

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  #1  
Old 06-23-06, 05:24 AM
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B&S No throttle control

Hi all, I'm trying to help sis-in-law with B/S ride-on with 14.5 (looks like 227707 0220-01) The base was full of gas so I drained it, changed it, took carb to local spot and got it cleaned. I re-installed it and now it will start well ,which it wouldn't at all before, but it runs fast(about 80% throttle) and doesn't respond to manual throttle at all. If I manually turn throttle linkage it will speed up to what it has left but won't slow down. I hauled the carb off again and tried to close throttle flap. It doesn't close all the way. Is this normal? It looks as if it's only ever closed this far as there is a mark where it stops. It would always idle before this whole problem started with the gas being left in all winter. I hesitate to touch governor as I don't think it was altered while I was frigging with it. Am I missing something obvious? I'm trying to save her a few dollars so initially trying to stay out of the shop but will if I need to. I do respect the pros. Appreciate any help you could send my way
Randy
 
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  #2  
Old 06-23-06, 10:51 AM
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Are you sure that you got the carb.and linkage on right???????
IF SO....

'DO NOT mess' with the governor.That's not the problem.The throttle never completely closes.The engine would surely die then.IF even you could crank it.But I'd check the throttle cable first,Sounds like it might be slipping in the clamp that is supposed to hold it still,or the cable is broken.

If thats not the problem after all,their's a screw on the throttle lever(on the carb.) that might need adjusting.(just like on a car)
 
  #3  
Old 06-23-06, 11:31 AM
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Thanks---but the thing that has me stuck is that there doesn't seem to be any connection between the linkage low on the block which is hooked by cable to the manual throtle and the carb. In any case even manually adjusting the throttle at the carb doesn't do anything except I can make it go a little faster. With the throttle in the closed position(slightly open) it still runs at 70% throttle or so. It's like there isn't any plate on the throttle at all----hmmmm strange
 
  #4  
Old 06-23-06, 03:34 PM
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venessr,

I agree with repair guy. The linkage from your throttle cable will hook to a lever that links by spring to the govenor arm which in turn is connected to the carbs throttle flap by a small rod. If this is not the case then you have incorrectly installed the linkage. If the above is correct proceed as follows....

You will need to remove the breather from the top of the carb. The throttle on the carb has a set screw that if turned all the way in will not let the throttle arm close. You will need to turn this screw out until the engine idles. Remenber to lower the mowers speed control lever to the slow position.

If this does not do it, with the engine off, you will need to losen the clamp that holds the speed control cable at the engine. With the speed control set full, move the cable up or down until the throttle on the carb is in the full position then retighten firmly but not to tight.

Let Us know how it goes.

God Bless
Dave237
 

Last edited by dave237; 06-23-06 at 04:29 PM.
  #5  
Old 06-23-06, 05:31 PM
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But...... If I unhook everything at the carb and start er up it runs wide open even with manually turning down [email protected] For some reason it runs fast with throttle CLOSED(in reality it's open a little bit for an idle) With no linkage hooked up no matter what I do with throttle flap it still runs wide open(or at least 80% or so) I can open it up a little and it will run even faster but not down to an idle. Doesn't make sense does it?
Randy
 
  #6  
Old 06-23-06, 06:12 PM
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I drained it, changed it, took carb to local spot and got it cleaned.
I wonder if the throttle plate was reinstalled incorrectly when it was cleaned. Is there a beveled edge or a notch in the throttle plate that appears to be in the wrong position? Some throttle shafts have a stop built into the end near the throttle adjusting screw. Could it be the shaft was reinstalled on the wrong side bump stop molded into the side of the carb?
 
  #7  
Old 06-23-06, 10:35 PM
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Thumbs up

First: all governors are sensitive to the touch.
You didnt mention the make of the engine, is it Briggs, Tecumseh or Kohler? If it`s Briggs the model # you gave is for a 10hp.
But the problem you`ve described could happen with all model`s
Did you bend the gov, link that connects to the carb,? If so straighten it out.

If what JLOpower mentioned is the problem, here's how you correct it. Remove the carb, from the engine, back the idle screw out as far as possible with out removing it, look in the back bore of the carb, and see if the throttle plate screw is loose. If not, loosen the small screw only about 1/8-1/4 turn, slowly turn the throttle shaft(full turns) back and forth(open and closed) several times and watch the throttle plate as you do this (if the shaft doesn't turn free and smooth put WD40 on it) keep turning the throttle shaft open and closed until the plate closes all of the way, tighten down the screw, check and see if it still turn free and smooth and closes all of the way after you tighten the screw. If you feel even the slightest roughness when you turn the shaft you need to loosen the screw and do it again. After that, turn the idle screw back in until it just opens the throttle and reassemble the carb, make sure you connect the governor linkage to the throttle shaft before you put it on and be sure to install the intake gasket and tighten the mounting bolts(nuts) evenly.
Do this an let us know how things turn out.
Mike
 

Last edited by mikesmalleng; 06-23-06 at 10:47 PM.
  #8  
Old 06-23-06, 11:01 PM
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Thumbs up

If the problem is the misaligned throttle control cable, here`s how you adjust it, loosen the control cable clamp, put throttle control lever in the choke position, put the carburetor in choke and tighten the clamp back down.
Mike
 
  #9  
Old 06-24-06, 12:51 AM
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They said it was a briggs 14.5 hp. The model# is 287707, not 227707. Sounds to me like the idle screw needs to be backed out, or the throttle plate aligned.
 
  #10  
Old 06-25-06, 04:42 AM
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Hi Guys,
Raining too hard here in "sunny" Nova Scotia to work on it but a recap------

-Throttle plate is in the right position, almost closed and aligned,
-Idle screw is backed away from linkage altogether,
-linkage is hooked up right and not slipping
-cable from dash works ok, not slipping

I don't know where it's getting the air but with that plate almost closed it's still runnuing @ 80% or so throttle. I have a fair idea of this stuff from old cars and drag racing etc. but this is weird.
Would a diaphram or float problem cause this? It has an elec shut-down that works. (won't start when it's unhooked)
Thanks--Randy
 
  #11  
Old 06-25-06, 05:25 AM
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To be running that hard, it would have to be getting additional air and fuel from somewhere. I just can't think of another air source except the tube for the crankcase breather. Strange!
 
  #12  
Old 06-25-06, 02:30 PM
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venessr,

This couldn't be a float or diaphram problem. This engine has to be getting it's fuel and air past the throttle flap. Look again at the throttle flap. I'm willing to bet money that it can not be closing all the way. Something is holding it open either inside or out of the carb body. The throttle flap can only be installed one way...! It may pay you to remove the carb and remove the throttle flap for inspection....

God Bless,
Dave237
 
  #13  
Old 06-25-06, 07:33 PM
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Venessr:

What does the engine do when you open the throttle fully open? With the engine running cap off the carb opening with you hand. It should choke it to dieing immediately. If it doesn't there could be another source of air.

It would be physically impossible for the engine to run at that level with its only source of air being past an idle setting on a throttle plate.

Hope this helps
 

Last edited by marbobj; 06-25-06 at 07:45 PM.
  #14  
Old 06-25-06, 08:20 PM
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I must stress that not just air will speed the engine. It must be in the company of fuel mixed in the proper amount ...! There are only two ports for fuel to mix with air... and one is before the throttle flap (main jet) and requires rushing air to enrich the flow and the seconed is the idle jet which is on the post side of the throttle flap and also needs rushing air to enrich the flow. Again, check the throttle flap.... This has to be the source of air flow or you have a hole in the carb just past the the throttle flap.

God Bless
Dave237
 
  #15  
Old 06-25-06, 08:31 PM
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I know you've ALL got to be right. I'll haul the carb off again tomorrow and let you know thanks
Randy
 
  #16  
Old 06-26-06, 02:31 PM
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OKAY---This is getting silly!!!!
I took the carb off AGAIN, took it to another guy who, by all reports knows all about this stuff. He cleaned the carb again, adjusted the throttle plate---which WAS stuck partially open, checked everything in the carb itself and said it was clean and all looked well to him. With the throttle plate reseated where it belongs I went back home smiling now thinking AHA--got you now you bugger!!! Put the carb back on and it starts really well but STILL runs at almost full throttle. Now I know the plate is closing tight, I can kill it with the choke so I guess the air must be going thru it. I have a basic knowledge of carbs and the job they do but----HOW CAN THIS BE??? This doesn't make sense. Also....the throttle doesn't affect the engine speed at all, up or down except if you open it up at all on the carb it goes faster like before. One thing I've noticed---when it's not running the throttle is in the open position and when you start it up the governor linkage shuts the throttle linkage down to the idle position but the revs don't go down with it
HELP!!!
 
  #17  
Old 06-26-06, 03:09 PM
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venessr,

The functioning of the govenor you noted; is correct. It should open the throttle as the engine slows and close it as is speeds up until the engine equalizes.

This one does sound strange indeed however, the carbs intake of air has got to be getting past the throttle flap in some way. I would think this is the clue that should lead you to a cause and fix.


God Bless,
Dave237
 
  #18  
Old 06-26-06, 03:57 PM
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I hate to be the barrier of bad news,and I hope that I'm wrong.but it sounds like the governor shaft or the little plastic piece that controls the governors counter weights is broken,since the linkage moves but has no effect on the RPM's.
 
  #19  
Old 06-26-06, 07:45 PM
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Has the goernor spring been tampered with or distorted?

Is the governor clamp loose? Have you had it loose? Check below the carb at low part of the governor lever were it clamps to the shaft coming out of the engine.
If it is, it needs to be adjusted before its retightened. We can help with that.
 
  #20  
Old 06-27-06, 08:29 PM
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If you're sure the throttle plate is closed fully when you're getting the 80% engine response, the governor shouldn't be causing it.

It's a possibility the rpms are up, giving the impression the engine is putting out 80% when it's actually running on an overly lean mixture. An air leak would be a possibility. Since the carb has been cleaned it could be at the throttle shaft or the mating of the carb to the engine.

You could start the engine and spray carb cleaner around those areas to see if you get any change in rpms.

When you choke the engine to kill it you aren't actually starving it for air, you are activating the choke circuit and flooding the engine which kills it.


Hope this helps
 
  #21  
Old 06-28-06, 12:57 AM
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I agree that the governor should not be an issue here. If the throttle plate is indeed closing, the engine could have no governor at all, but still be at low idle.

I'm thinking air leak or lean mixture too. Have you adjusted the low speed screw? Back it out some if it has one. Check the gaskets between the intake and block, and between the carb and intake. Check the intake for cracks. Is there gas in the oil? Smell it to see.
 
  #22  
Old 06-29-06, 12:00 AM
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To make sure that the throttle plate is closing completely and properly, remove the carb, close the throttle making sure the idle screw is not interfering, shine a flash light through the front and if even the slightest bit of light can be seen around the edges the plate improperly aligned or possibly worn.
 
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