Stopping 23HP Kohler motor

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  #1  
Old 09-02-06, 06:02 AM
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Stopping 23HP Kohler motor

I have a Craftsman GT3000 rider, with a 23HP Kohler motor, about 4 years old. A couple of years ago it would not start after sitting all winter. I determined it was the fuel solenoid valve in the carb stopping the fuel, so I disconnected it and it then ran fine. My local shop says they put those on to keep them from backfiring when stopping the motor. Well it backfired before I fixed it, and still did after I fixed it. Usually right when the motor was winding down, it would give one good sounding boom, and then the motor would stop.

Now it wants to “run on” when turning the key off and the motor hot. This has gotten progressively worse, to where now, it will just keep chugging like it hitting every second. I have seen motors do this on cars, but they were actually running in reverse, and it was called dieseling. Mine is running forward, as I can put it in gear and it moves forward. I think its carbon build up in the head or pistons, causing it to self fire without the ignition.

Any ideas?

Harry
 
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  #2  
Old 09-02-06, 07:10 AM
Azis
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Have you thought about replacing the fuel solenoid valve? Sounds like it has another issue anyway as disconnecting it should "Stop" fuel flow. If the solenoid is still installed and only disconnected it may become the source of yet another problem in the future.

Although I've not personally tried it, a make shift water injection has been said to help remove deposits. With the engine at temp and throttle up, use a spray bottle with a fine mist and spray water in the carb so the water mist will be sucked into the engine. Theoretically the water will hit the hot deposits crystalizing them and hopefully detatching and blow out the exhaust. The engine will most likely try to die but should come right back to life.

Edit: Also make sure the engine shrouds are cleaned. If the cooling fins on the engine are clogged it can not cool as well which can cause premature engine wear among other things.
 

Last edited by Azis; 09-02-06 at 07:52 AM.
  #3  
Old 09-02-06, 10:38 AM
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Az, in theory, that sounds good, but I wouldn't try it. Hwindle, it sounds as though you've messed with the wiring related to both the fuel solenoid as well as the ignition switch. In other words, it seems as though you have disconnected the kill circuit wire. For if the kill circuit were functioning properly, you wouldn't get the dieseling bacause the ignition is null - no spark. I'd correct the wiring you've dismantled, soak and service the carburetor, replace the fuel solenoid and this should have you back up and running.
 

Last edited by puey61; 09-02-06 at 11:01 AM.
  #4  
Old 09-02-06, 02:40 PM
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I didn't disconnect the wire, I took the part out of the solenoid that was stopping the fuel. It did fine for the last 2 years, and now is doing the dieseling. I am going to try the water injection, as I have seen that work on cars in the past, cleaning out the deposits. If nothing else, I can probably just hit the choke and it should kill the motor. Just wanted to know if someone else has had this problem. I don't want to put a new solenoid in because this is the 2nd time I have seen a problem with them, and the older motors didn't have them. My friend told me today that they added these things because they are running the engines leaner, I guess to meet emissions.
 
  #5  
Old 09-02-06, 03:06 PM
Azis
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Originally Posted by puey61
Az, in theory, that sounds good, but I wouldn't try it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detonation_internal_combustion_engine
...Cooling the combustion chamber with water injection came to be known as ADI in WWII aircraft standing for "Anti Detonation Injection". In the modern performance automotive community it is commonly known as Water injection or simply WI...

Its actually an old practice
 
  #6  
Old 09-02-06, 11:24 PM
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It does sound like you have either an engine that's running too hot, making the fuel combust in the chamber without ignition...or carbon buildup that is getting too hot causing the same thing. The water trick does work for cleaning up carbon. On cars, we used to get some water in a cup, and rev the engine and pour a small stream into the carb throat until the engine rpm dropped drastically, then stop pouring and let the engine catch back up. Nowadays, it's not reccomended with sensitive exhaust systems with catalytic converters and oxygen sensors in the exhaust. On a small engine like yours, it's fine. Don't overdo the water though. Water doesn't compress, and if you happen to put too much in at once, it could cause damage.
 
  #7  
Old 09-03-06, 12:23 AM
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You could also have a valve leak,carbon build up around the valves, a bent push rod, loss of valve clearance, water in the fuel system or you could have a shorted stop switch wire or ignition switch.
Does the interlocking system (seat switch) cause the engine to die immediatly or backfire?
If you took thr needle out of the fuel solenoid then it is getting gas when it should be cut off.
 
  #8  
Old 09-03-06, 05:02 AM
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I have disconnected the seat switch, as well as all the other safety crap. The key works fine, as it trys to kill the engine. I am pretty sure its carbon making it desiel. I will try some water, and also put some Lucas gas treatment in.
 
  #9  
Old 09-03-06, 11:58 AM
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Scratch my last comment on "loss of valve clearance"Kohler CV engines have hydraulic lifters.
 
  #10  
Old 09-03-06, 12:56 PM
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Cheese

Dieseling also occurred when the timing was set in advance.

I believe that some of the mix up here is that some are confusing a "Magneto" ignition with a "Battery" ignition.

CHEESE: I don`t have any paperwork here on the (4 year old) 23hp showing the type of ignition. Can you find out?

The last 23hp Kohler that I worked on was an old "K583" on a Toro GroundsMaster which had a battery ignition system.

If we`re talking about a "Battery" ignition, the timing may be the problem.
 
  #11  
Old 09-04-06, 12:14 AM
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This one is not battery ignition. This is a command series kohler. Kohler quit the battery ignition when they dropped the K series.
 
  #12  
Old 09-08-06, 11:09 AM
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Sorry I haven't done anything yet, I'm old and lazy. But I have had a guy using it just to move the trailer around, so it only runs for 5 minutes at a time. No backfires on stopping and no dieseling. It has to be carbon that never got hot enought yet?
 
  #13  
Old 09-13-06, 09:39 AM
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Thanks Cheese,
 
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