toro personal pace mower (old thread)

Closed Thread

  #1  
Old 03-12-07, 03:50 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
toro personal pace mower (old thread)

I have a toro self propelled mower. When I first purchased it new, the further that you pushed the bar to make it drive, the faster it went. In fact if you wanted you could almost run behind it. Speed walk at least. The older it has gotten (2 years), the slower it has become. I have had to replace the drive cable and the drive belt already, but this has not helped. Both due to old age/breakage. I have the drive cable adjusted as far as I can and still permit the transmission to go into neutral when pulling the mower backwards. The only thing that I can think of is the pulleys at the blade and the transmission are worn. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me because the only part that could cause wear on them is the rubber belt! It has almost gotten to the point that the mower is a push mower- not self propelled. No noises from transmission nor obvious wear.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-12-07, 05:23 PM
30yearTech's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,176
Pulleys do wear!

Most of the time it is the pulley on the engine that will wear the most since the pulley on the transmission is most likely steel and has more pitch. Check the belt on the engine and make sure when it has tension on it, that it does not bottom out in the pulley. Drive belts and pulleys are supposed to make contact on the sides of the "V" design and not on the bottom. If the belt is riding on the bottom of the pulley it will slip and not deliver power to the transmission
 
  #3  
Old 03-13-07, 07:11 PM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
Smile

The first thing I need to know is the model number of the Toro since I work for a Toro dealer and have seviced the personal pace units. If you can not find the model number, just post whether you have an aluminum deck or stamped steel deck. I have seen the pulley on the engines with lost set screws and also bevel and pinion gears gone in the transmissions. Will gladly walk you through the service of these units.
 
  #4  
Old 03-14-07, 03:10 AM
puey61's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 3,224
I'd bet that the tranny pulley is worn. The principle behind these tranney's is that they rely on belt slippage in order to change ground speed. Toro has done much research into the belt as well as pulley pitch to make this work well. If you've replaced the belt and still have a weak drive then it's time to inspect both pulleys. The tranny pulley is the most likely to be worn but don't overlook the engine pulley. The wear may be so minute that to an untrained eye you may not see the wear and in which case, you may elect to simply replace both pulleys so as to reduce any trial and error downtime.
 
  #5  
Old 03-14-07, 04:30 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
model #

The model # is 20018. I'm pretty sure it is a steel deck. I replaced the belt with a belt from our local Toro dealer- Baasch Brothers in Cullman Al. It appeared that the young salesperson simply compared the old belt to a new one to sell me a replacement. I don't know if he gave me an official Toro brand belt or not. I have not checked yet to see if the belt bottoms in the pulley. I didn't realize that was how it was designed; to ride on the edges of the pulley-not bottomed. I thought about first finding an official Toro brand belt. From reading other posts I thought that might be my problem. But I am now wondering if the pulleys are not in fact worn out. Do you recommend replacing the belt and both pulleys? Or just the pulleys? The transmission has never given any signs of trouble- it simply appears to be belt slippage.
 
  #6  
Old 03-14-07, 04:47 PM
30yearTech's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,176
The Toro part number for the drive belt is 91-2258 if this is what they sold you, then it is the correct one.

The pulley on the transmission is a 2 piece pulley, make sure the nut on the top is tight or the pulley can come spread apart and allow the belt to slip. I have usually found that the engine pulley is the problem, but I would check both just to be sure.
 
  #7  
Old 03-17-07, 08:04 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1
Thumbs down Wish that was my problem :)

My Toro PP 20018 engine locked up in less than 2 seasons of trimming use only.... and being too busy to bring it in and again- the warranty ran out - so I have $400 garage adornment )

Glad to let go of the "shell" because it just pushing around the yard doesn't do much good without the engine running
 
  #8  
Old 03-18-07, 11:57 AM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
Smile

The 20018 Toro we refer to it as the Home Depot special. There are several things here that you can check. First, do you hear a clicking sound when you push it forward on the cement? Second, do you hear and feel the drag of the transmission turning when you pull the mower in reverse? The reason I ask this is that the gears on the ends of the transmission shaft that drive the individual wheels can be installed backwards. There is a letter on the gear side that designates the side out on the gear to which it is being installed. R for the right side of the mower as you stand behind it and L for left. The clicking should be the dog key that locks the gear to drive the wheel ratching. This key will lock into the gear when you pull the mower in reverse and spin the transmission. You can visit the Toro Parts look up site at \\lookup2.toro.com/partdex. With the mower on its side and you mamually turn the wheel in the reverse direction, you can feel the drive pulley on the mower turn. This will mean the transmission is functioning. The belt should take the slack out of it when you push down on the handle for the personal pace. This is adjusted by loosening the retainer on the upper handle bar that clamps the outer cable sheath. The more you pull the sheath towards the mower deck the sooner the drive belt will tighten on the pulleys. Remember when you turn the mower on its side that the air cleaner side is up so you do not dump the engine oil into the carb intake and air filter.

Another thing with this mower, is the pulley and blade adapter is one piece. The inside of the adapter has a boss that fits into the keyway slot on the end of the crankshaft. These bosses have been worn away that the blade and pulley will slip. Proper torque on the bolt will prevent this.

I have seen this mower come into the shop with what appeared as a locked up engine with 1. a small stick (less that 1/4 inch) wedged between the belt and the engine pulley. This wedged the belt into the guard, 2. an accumulation of grass under the deck that was so thick the blade would not turn. If you took the top half of the transmission pulley off to replace the belt, make sure that pulley half is tight. The belt came become wedged in the pulley during tightening and give a false feeling. 3. a small stick can become wedged in the transmission pulley and give the sense of a locked up transmission. This transmission is not the best and have seen two year old units where the owner washes the mower underside regularly and the shaft and bushings are worn out due to corrosion and allows the transmission to slip.

Good Luck and hope this was a help diagnose your problem.
 
  #9  
Old 03-28-08, 02:52 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1
I'm having a very similar problem with my Toro of the same model number. I've had it for two years, I power wash the grass out of it every time I mow and recently the wheels started to lock up when I tried to pull it backwards. I inspected the belts and it seems ok. Maybe I have a stick lodged in the mower like you suggested.
 
  #10  
Old 03-28-08, 06:25 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Western Area
Posts: 94
Water is not a good thing for most mowers, chances are the drive gears on the axle have some corrosion or rust build up on the shaft, causing the gears to bind. Take the drive wheels off and spray some lube and make sure the drive gears rotate freely on the axle in one direction, they are supposed to catch in the other direction.
 
  #11  
Old 03-29-08, 07:07 AM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
If you look in the owner manual you will see a maintenance item for lubing the gears on the axle shaft on this model. What is happening is the lube has harden or gone away. In the end of the axle shaft is a hole that comes out under the spring loaded key under the gear. This key has to move freely and the gear to rotate on the shaft. Two things you can do. 1. force oil through the hole in the axle shaft until it comes out around the gear and then spin the gear. 2. is more difficult and you have to watch the gear position or the gear will not drive. Remove the clip on the end of the axle shaft and remove the gear. Watch for the spring and key in the axle slot. Clean and reinstall. The gear has a letter R or L on the ends so you can see which side is out when you put the gear back on. I lube with an antisieze compound yearly when I service this model. You can also clean the hole out so you can periodically remove the wheel and lube through the hole.
 
  #12  
Old 07-05-08, 09:54 AM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Toro Model 20016 - front drive transmission question

I have a Toro Model 20016, self propelled, front-drive, walk behind mower. The drive was slipping so I checked the pulleys and replaced the drive belt. With the front wheels off the ground they spin as normal. With the wheels on the ground the tranny will grind and slip ...tranny pulley spinning so I'm thinking gear trouble. I removed the transmission and the pinion shaft has a bit of slop. I assume there should be none. So I'm thinking the bearing/bushing is shot. It doesn't appear from the Toro parts breakdown that the pinion/shaft or bearing is available seperately from the transmission assembly. It may be that it's better to just replace the whole tranny assembly anyway. Just wondering if anyone has been into one of these before and has any advice ...much appreciated!

Thanks!
 
  #13  
Old 07-05-08, 02:32 PM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Took the tranny apart and punched out the pinion bearing ...it's a standard size (17x40x12) so got one at the local auto supply and going to give it a try. Comparing the two, the old one was really worn/sloppy at the inside race so I hope this fixes the problem. Since this mower is consumer grade I don't really want to spend a lot more time and money ...the bearing was only about $8. Will post the results!
 
  #14  
Old 07-05-08, 05:09 PM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
The new bearing did the trick. Installed it , re-packed tranny case with grease and bolted it all back on the axle. While I was at it I checked the wheel gears and lubed. All works like new. Saved $60 some odd dollars for a new transmission so I'm a happy camper ...'cept now I need to go cut the grass! Hopefully my posts will be of value to someone else in a similar situation. Cheers!
 
  #15  
Old 07-09-08, 05:38 PM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Toro personal pace mower

Does anybody know how to remove the gear behind the tire? I need to take that off to remove the transmission assembly.
 
  #16  
Old 07-09-08, 06:03 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Western Area
Posts: 94
Depending on your specific model number, it is generally held on with a spring type "E" clip or horseshoe type clip. Just pry them up with a small screw driver or needle nose pliers. Be careful though they can jump off and take off for parts unknown or hit you in the face or eye. Once the retaining clip is off the axle shaft, then the gears just slides outward and off the shaft. There may be a rocker type key or a square or woodruff type key under the gear, so be careful not to loose any of your parts.
 
  #17  
Old 07-10-08, 08:59 AM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
Also depending on the model number there maybe one or two more E clips and thrust washers. Also depending on the model, you may have to remove one of the axle supports from the deck.
 
  #18  
Old 08-08-08, 08:46 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
Spring in handle assembly

I also have the Toro 20018 Personal Pace. I don't have the serial number on me, but it's in the middle of the range. The handle end of the drive cable broke off. I replaced the cable as well as the plastic part of the handle that slides up and down. A couple of the plastic parts were broken off the handle, so I thought that I should replace it while I was working on it. I got it all back together, except that I cannot figure out where the spring that provides the tension to move the handle back to the "up" position anchors. One end clearly wraps around the steel rod that rests in the slot on the plastic handle. Where does the other end anchor. Based on the position it seems that it should rest in tension against the sliding part of the handle but that can't work because when the handle slides the end of the spring digs in and prevents the handle from moving properly. Not to mention that it leaves a scratch on the handle and would eventuallly wear out the spring, the handle, or both. If someone could post a description or, better yet, a photo or diagram of the proper position of the spring I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks, Tom.
 
  #19  
Old 08-08-08, 09:02 PM
30yearTech's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,176
I don't have a picture right now, but I can take one tomorrow for you. I bet your spring is actually broken, there is a "hook" on one side and it's pretty easy to figure out if the spring is complete. The first time I ran across a broken one, I spent quite awhile trying to figure out how it was supposed to go, once I discovered the spring was broken and got a new one, it was easy to figure out how it was suppose to go on.
 
  #20  
Old 08-09-08, 07:55 AM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
The "u" shaped end goes around the rod that moves when you slide the handle. The "L" shaped end goes into the hole in the handle bar "steel". The spring can be wound up to increase the tension on the sliding handle. It should be pretty straight forward as the hole should line up with the parts in place. Good Luck.
 
  #21  
Old 08-09-08, 08:57 AM
30yearTech's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,176
Pictures

Originally Posted by therishel View Post
If someone could post a description or, better yet, a photo or diagram of the proper position of the spring I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks, Tom.
Here you go, this is what the spring is supposed to look like

http://www.imower.com/images/spring_1.jpg


Here is a picture of it installed

http://www.imower.com/images/spring_2.jpg

Another angle of it installed

http://www.imower.com/images/spring_3.jpg

Hope this helps you some.
 
  #22  
Old 08-09-08, 12:57 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
Handle spring is broken !

30yearTech, you nailed it! The spring is broken. The "L" is broken off. I have the hook on the other end and, as Camino Kid mentioned, that connection is pretty obvious. It was the other end that I could not figure out. Like you, I tried it every way that I could think of, but nothing worked. I am betting that a new, complete spring will clear my problem right up. Thanks to all for replys and, especially to 30yearTech for the photos. -Tom
 
  #23  
Old 10-17-08, 07:27 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 40
Help with key/spring

I recently replaced the front axle. However, I lost both springs and one key. I did order replacement parts, but have no idea how to install them. The slot in the axle is long and the key is very small. The key has a curved side and then a straight side and I am unsure of which way it goes in. Would anyone have a pic or diagram of a correctly installed key & spring? Also, I am assuming that the wheel gears (marked "R" and "L") are placed with the lettering on the outside? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Many thanks in advance!
 
  #24  
Old 10-17-08, 10:22 AM
30yearTech's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,176
The spring goes into the axle first, then the key curved side down. You are correct that the gears go with the lettering facing out, however both gears are the same and have an "R" and an "L" stamped on each side of them. Just make sure you position each gear correctly on each side. The sides are determined from the operator position behind the handle.
 
  #25  
Old 05-30-09, 09:19 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: bc canada
Posts: 1
toro drive belt

how do you get the drive belt on the pully
toro personal pace model 20049
 
  #26  
Old 05-31-09, 05:12 PM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
Smile

https://lookup3.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro


Look your model up on the above web site at Toro. The transmission has to be rotated so you can loosen the top of the pulley enough to get the belt on and retighened. You will have to disconnect the drive control cable so the transmission will be rotated. Some units I have to remove the plastic deflector in front of the transmission where it attaches to the handle bar supports. I think the pictures on the Toro site are pretty much show you how it goes together.
 
  #27  
Old 09-29-09, 08:41 PM
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Teaxs
Posts: 2
Toro personal pace mower 200018

I have had the personal pace mower I bought from home depot since May 09 and have had a problem with the belt going bad after a short time in two mowers. The first mower I purchased lasted 15 minutes before the drive cut out - belt went bad. I took that mower back and got another. It lasted through about 6 or 7 mowings before the belt went out again. Any recalls on these $400 mowers? How do you replace the belt on these units? I am still under the two year warranty - I am wondering if I should take the unit back to Home Depot and by a different brand? Any advice?
 
  #28  
Old 09-29-09, 09:48 PM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,575
If it only lasted 6 or 7 mowings, there is something wrong with it and it needs to be repaired. Let warranty take care of it.
 
  #29  
Old 09-30-09, 06:52 PM
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Teaxs
Posts: 2
That is what I will do, I am just wondering if it is not worth taking it back and getting a different brand. If I pay $400 for a mower I expect it to go a couple of years problem free.
 
  #30  
Old 10-01-09, 01:11 AM
cheese's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 16,575
I would too. I have liked the toros I've seen in the past and wouldn't be shy of a new one. I think you just have a problem with yours that can be straightened out.
 
  #31  
Old 10-01-09, 05:40 AM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
Actually there is very little problem at my location for belt failures. I see some units coming in with what appears as a locked up transmission but have found small pieces of twigs that were chopped up with the mower and have gotten between the belt and transmission pulley causing a binding and belt to get burnt through by the customer trying to keep going instead of stoping and looking into what had happen.
 
  #32  
Old 10-03-09, 06:21 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5
Great thread! I've got a question on the wheel pinion gear for 20055 pp mower (2005 model). Mine has no L or R marking but has a small dot on one side. Should the dot face out?

Also when I reassemble everything should I grease parts as I go or just use the zirc when I'm done? Is it good or bad to have grease between the white clutch washer and black friction ring?

Thanks!
 
  #33  
Old 10-04-09, 07:16 AM
CAMINO KID's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Wisconsin
Posts: 354
20055 toro pp

The 20055 Toro Personal pace cast deck mower uses a different setup for driving the wheels than the 20018 steel deck mowers. You have the drive clutches on each wheel that will flip up a dogs to engage the transmission shaft to each wheel gear. The grease zert will lube a roller bearing in the height adjusters and wheel mount plates. The gears will work in either direction on these units so the dot make no difference on whether it faces in or out. The black o-ring and the white clutch plate is what flips up the dog to engage the gear. On these units you can get the dogs on the wrong sides but you will notice that the dog will not set flush with the transmission shaft if you have the wrong side. There are no markings on the dogs for sides. The white clutch plate drags slightly on the o-ring and flips up the dog to engage the gear. This white plate will develop a ridge on the outer edge over time and should be replaced along with the o-ring. The o-ring has a stepped inside diameter that fits in the groove in the wheel support and height adjuster. Lube the shaft for the gear to turn freely and when you have it reassembled, grease the zert. Grese will not hurt the o-ring and white clutch plate. You do not want to get grease on the teeth of the gears as this will attract grass and dirt and wear out the gears faster. Hope this helps you.
 
  #34  
Old 10-05-09, 04:53 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5
Thanks that helps a lot. My parts should be here tomorrow I will let you know how it goes!
 
  #35  
Old 10-09-09, 12:04 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5
I installed new friction rings and clutch washers on my 20055 and it works great. Thanks CK for sharing your expertise. Saved lots of money doing this myself - parts were just a few dollars.
 
  #36  
Old 03-24-10, 08:23 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 14
I have a Toro PP 20017 that just stopped moving the other day.

I found that the belt slipped off.
What a little pain getting it back on.

However, I got it back on without loosening the drive cable.

Now thankfully I found this page, although a little late.
I bought this at Home Depot back in 2003 and they don't carry the replacement belt.

So I went to our local Toro place Annesi's in Natck, Ma.

They charged me $45 for the belt and pully assembly.
I though this was steep.

I went to Toro's site and saw that Annesi's charged me about 25% over Toro's retail costs. What a rip they are!

I could have saved close to 10 bucks going Toro direct and that includes having to have it shipped.

I have a broken e-clip and cracked stepped washer on the gear drive that I need to replace.
I could go to toro and buy them, but don't want to pay $4, shipping for a $1 part.

On principal, I don't want to go to Annesi's.

I have no problem supporting the local business's, but god why are you charging 25% over retail?!

That's just plain old wrong.

I was looking to buy a RedMax 7100 as I know several people who have and loev them, but I also found that Annesi's charge about $25 more than another local source I just found.

Okay, I'm done venting for the moment...

-Mario
 
  #37  
Old 03-24-10, 11:45 AM
bontai Joe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 592
Just for general information, the "E" clip retaining rings are generic, you don't have to buy them at your dealer. I bought a decent assortment pack at my local NAPA store for under $10. Has come in REAL handy when one I'm removing flies off into neverfindit land.
 
  #38  
Old 03-24-10, 12:03 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Agreed, however the e-clip's on these have extra meat around the edges that makes me think it gives more face to the gear it makes contact with.

Also, the stepped washer for the wheel assembly is chipped all around the edges and wanted to replace it to be safe.

Home Depot around me only carries 3 sizes, and I couldn't be sure of a good fit.

Thanks though...

-Mario

Originally Posted by bontai Joe View Post
Just for general information, the "E" clip retaining rings are generic, you don't have to buy them at your dealer. I bought a decent assortment pack at my local NAPA store for under $10. Has come in REAL handy when one I'm removing flies off into neverfindit land.
 

Last edited by m3rdpwr; 03-24-10 at 12:27 PM.
  #39  
Old 03-25-10, 05:09 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 14
Just a quick update and thanks for the useful thread.

Found that while a generic 1/2" e-clip was a smidge too small, 5/8" was too big.
So the 1/2" generic e-clip it was.

It's all good now.

I'll tell ya' I don't ever remember the lawnmower moving like a bat out of hell like it does now.

Perhaps it was never adjusted properly from the factory.

I can't find my tube of greese, so I'll have to pull the wheel's off again to greese those later.

I also remember reading something about putting a zerk fitting on the transmission, which I may do at some point as well.

Thanks all...

-Mario
 
  #40  
Old 06-01-10, 08:28 PM
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Toro Engine Running Unevenly

I have the Toro 20018 and my engine runs unevenly after it has been going for a short time. It starts fine. It worked well until I went out of town for a trip and my wife mowed the lawn. She washed the top of the mower afterwards and it hasn't worked well since.

I have had it serviced and they cleaned out the fuel system and said there was something else in the gas (looked like kerosene they said). It ran fine when I got it back but now has the same issue again. I replace the previous can of gas btw and know that the gas in there has not been contaminated.

My wife also ran over the original gas cap so I got a replacement (gas cap not wife). The mower engine runs unevenly (lower rpms and cycles up and down). When I lift the front wheels or tip the mower slightly to the right (like sideways on a hill) the rpms increase and the engine smooths out. What could this be?
 
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:05 PM.