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B&S 19.5 HP twin engine won't start


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04-16-07, 05:58 PM   #1  
B&S 19.5 HP twin engine won't start

engine is Briggs model # 42E707-2631-E1

I have been reading other posts and have a similar problem.

Engine starts an runs for a few seconds but won't restart. Main problem is gas getting into the oil as has been described in other posts indicating the carb is fouled. The solution offered was to repair the carb (needle). Is this an easy DIY?

Thanks.

 
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04-16-07, 07:51 PM   #2  
Azis
Not particularly easy on your twin. If you have not done any mechanical work, it would be something to let someone who has do.

 
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04-16-07, 08:12 PM   #3  
It's not as simple as some, but in my opinion, it's an easy job. The air filter and filter housing must be removed, the top of the carb taken off, and you can change the needle from there. I suggest cleaning out the rest of the carb while you're at that point.


"Who is John Galt?" - Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)

God bless!

 
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04-17-07, 03:29 AM   #4  
Thanks cheese. I looked parts up on the B&S.com web site. I'll take a look at it and start with some carb cleaner. Should I get the carb overhaul kit if the carb cleaning doesn't work?

 
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04-17-07, 05:43 AM   #5  
Azis
It's not as simple as some, but in my opinion, it's an easy job.
Now when I say that, the response is usually..."Ok great, now where is the carb"
LOL :P

 
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04-17-07, 09:24 PM   #6  
Now Azis, that's probably the best laugh I had all day Ha! I know what you mean.

bletzinger...I'd reccomend going ahead and getting at least a new needle. If you're going to order it rather than pick one up at a local shop, then I'd go ahead and get the whole kit to be on the safe side. It wouldn't hurt to install it anyway, and you might find you actually need it once you open up the carb.


"Who is John Galt?" - Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)

God bless!

 
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04-20-07, 05:28 PM   #7  
update

Got the carb rebuild kit and the repair manual for the motor. Was able to get the carb off (fuel, vacuum, electrical lines, air cleaner, bolts). It was getting dark and I chickened out and put it back on to make sure I could at least get it back the way it was. Tested and determined I hadn't screwed up throttle and choke controls. The problem with the manual is it lists several types of carbs and the pictures don't seem to match.

Easy solution would be to take it back off, turn in my kit and let the lawnmower place rebuild it. I might try again though.

 
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04-20-07, 06:55 PM   #8  
Azis
Taking it off and putting it on the engine is the hardest part. There is not much for moving parts.

 
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04-21-07, 03:56 AM   #9  
I say, go for it. The worst that could happen is you are unsuccessful and would have to take it to a shop. On the other hand, if you get it done (and I think you will) you will have made a great accomplishment and save yourself some money. Yes, the manual is general, as it cannot possibly cover each and every setup exactly but it will provide you with enough useful information that you can certainly do this job yourself. It will definitely be beneficial to have compressed air, bath type cleaner and spray cleaner available to do the job well, but it is not absolutely necessary to have compressed air but you will want the two cleaners at a minimum. I use Napa's #6402 bath cleaner and Briggs #100042 spray cleaner and you will soak the carb for 15-20 minutes in the provided basket in the Napa cleaner and then spray the entire carb off with the spray then allow it to evaporate for another 15-20 minutes and then go ahead and rebuild the carb with a genuine Briggs kit. If you have a 3-screw fuel pump you will use kit number 694056 and if you have a 4-screw pump you will use kit number 693503.

 
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04-21-07, 01:40 PM   #10  
update 2

Mower parts and service store didn't know what bath cleaner kit was and gave me the wrong rebuild kit. After I got that sorted out - I made it through the whole job. I took some pictures along the way that really helped get it back together. No extra parts!

and...

Same problem - Started right up and died. On high throttle, choke open and the air cleaner off, it blows gas probably in a 9" fountain. I can't believe it's still the needle since I replaced that. Any ideas before I take it to the shop?

 
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04-21-07, 02:00 PM   #11  
The only way for gas to be getting in the oil is for the needle to be leaking, or the fuel pump diaphragm to be bad. I rarely see a fuel pump fail in this manner and would suspect a problem with the needle. It shot fuel 9" out of the carb???


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04-22-07, 04:52 AM   #12  
Thanks for the reply cheese. Apparently with the throttle up, gas is collecting rapidly in the carb. It's an electric start, so when I open up the choke it just blows out the top.

I did an oil change to get rid of the gas-oil mixture. I'll have to check the oil again.

Are you saying I should check the float needle? It's new like the other parts I put in the carb, although I don't know wht else it could be either.

This engine ran ok last year. I did put fuel stabilizer over winter but read later I should have run the engine to mix it in. I have run it out of gas and put fresh (new) gas in this year.

 
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04-22-07, 09:51 AM   #13  
update 3

Checked oil, changed spark plugs and air filter to eliminate some easy stuff. Same thing. It's clearly getting too much gas. It starts immediately and before I can open the choke it stalls and drips gas out of the bottom of the air cleaner housing.

I'll look into adjusting the carb fuel settings, but that shouldn't be it either. Next, I'll pull the carb apart again to make sure the needle is ok and the gasket holes are all aligned. Can't think of anything else.

 
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04-22-07, 10:15 AM   #14  
carb leak

Also, remember if the float has a hole in it it will not float and that will cause the needle to never seat and flooding...just a thought!

 
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04-22-07, 06:22 PM   #15  
Make sure the float bowl vent is open and the carburetor bowl is venting properly. If not then atmospheric pressure can hold the float down and allow the carburetor to flood even if the needle and seat are new and working properly.

 
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05-06-07, 07:47 AM   #16  
update 4

Well I tore it open again this morning and same result - starts up great and floods out. The throttle works (slow/fast) so it doesn't appear to be the problem.

I checked the float for any holes by holding it under water - no holes.

I don't have a float bowl vent annotated in the diagram but I sprayed carb cleaner through the openings including where the carb needle seats and from the other direction.

I can send the diagram but I can't post attachments. Appreciate all the suggestions so far.

 
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05-06-07, 08:03 AM   #17  
Azis
Water will doubtfully reveal a hole in the float. Gas can penetrate far smaller openings than water can. Try shaking the float next to your ear see if you hear sloshing.

 
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05-06-07, 08:05 AM   #18  
The float does not have any fluid inside.

I have a blow up diagram of the carb I'm trying to post but I am not allowed to post attachments.

update: I guess I could get a new float just in case - can't think of what else could be wrong.


Last edited by bletzinger; 05-06-07 at 08:11 AM. Reason: update
 
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05-06-07, 08:19 AM   #19  
Azis
Do you have a link to the diagram or is it a personal file?
The vent may be called a jet if it is removable or annotated.

 
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05-06-07, 08:26 AM   #20  
It's a paper B&S form (form MS-6220-2/99) that I have. It came with the carb rebuild kit. I can't find it on the B&S web site. There is a fixed jet on the lower carb body which was part of the rebuild (new fixed jet installed).

Doing some Googling - looks like an atmospheric vent hole could be plugged like 30yearTech said above - but I don't see it on my diagram.

 
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05-06-07, 09:04 AM   #21  
Azis
It should be on the upper body of the carb. It may also be a check ball. A small ball bearing...?

 
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05-06-07, 09:49 AM   #22  
Diagram only shows upper body, 4 screws, choke shaft, choke plate above the gasket, however, there is a brass tube with multiple holes attached to the upper body that inserts all the way to the lower body. This brass tube was not in the rebuild kit so maybe it's still clogged? Still researching before I tear into it again.

THe parts blowup on the B&S site doesn't show this tube like the paper one I got with the kit but here it is (on page 6 - 4 screw fuel pump mount carb)

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/ipl/pdfs/100/MS1102.pdf

 
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05-06-07, 09:58 AM   #23  
Azis
If you notice on that drawing, parts frame ref 91 is the upper body. It is round except for one part that extends out from the circle...this is where I think there is a check ball.
You are only looking at diagrams of the carb and not full schematics so you will not likely find any reference.

 
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05-06-07, 10:04 AM   #24  
OK thanks Aziz. I'll go at that and the tube on my next tear down. At least I'm getting better and dissambling and assembling.

 
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05-06-07, 11:20 AM   #25  
update 5

Another tear down and reassembly and same thing. Now I'm just frustrated. The extension on the upper body is just part of the casting with no vents. The post with all the holes is definately venting external, so I sprayed it both ways and got spray to go out both ends. Checked the float with the ear test - nada. The float is not adjustable so that can't be it. I set the throttle to seal completely at low to see if I could slow the fuel flow - didn't help. I'm going to have to take it in.

If I took just the carb - can a shop fix it? Or do I have to take in the whole tractor?

Well a miracle occured - I tried to start it one more time and it runs now. Unfortunately it seems to have another problem. It starts smoky and as the engine warms up it gets smokier. I cleaned up all the fluids around the muffler but it didn't help much. This tractor has an automatic transmission (sealed). It wouldn't move at first but as it warmed up, forward started working and then reverse. I'm smelling burning transmission fluid - if that's possible. Doesn't seem like that's a DIY fix job - looks like the tractor has to go into the shop.


Last edited by bletzinger; 05-06-07 at 11:40 AM. Reason: engine runs now - another problem (maybe related)
 
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05-06-07, 12:36 PM   #26  
It wasn't transmission fluid - it was gas in the oil again. I changed the oil again and hope the carb fix will prevent it from getting gas in the oil again.

 
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05-06-07, 04:11 PM   #27  
No luck. Ran it for about 2 minutes and it got smoky. Looks like the gas in the oil did some damage.

 
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05-08-07, 05:45 PM   #28  
Epilogue

Success! Thanks to Azis, Cheese and 30yeartech who diagnosed correctly that the carb vent was still clogged which apparently was the problem. Because of the gas geyser and the multiple fuel-oil drains, the muffler had lots of gunk on it that kept smoking. I figured since it was running well, it wouldn't be a serious engine problem and sure enough, eventually the gunk burned off while I mowed my yard today. Thanks again.

 
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05-09-07, 12:11 AM   #29  
Glad you got it fixed!


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