16 hp briggs v twin won't stay running

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  #1  
Old 05-10-07, 12:18 PM
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Unhappy 16 hp briggs v twin won't stay running

I have a 1999 16 hp Briggs V twin on a simplicity lawn tractor. The engine will start just fine when cold and may run for a long time if kept at low RPM.
If the RPM are increased to half throttle or more the engine will usually stall out within a minute or so. It will then usually start right back up again and run for a very short time before stalling again. After starting and stalling several times at some point the engine will not restart until you let the engine cool down. After cooling down it will then restart again. It seems like the motor will run longer if the outside temperature is cooler - less than 60 degrees. If it is above 70 or 75 degrees it will cut out sooner - even at low RPM. Dealer has been so busy he has not been able to look at it. I have replaced the air filter, fuel filter, put in new gas, gumout in the carb, and tried seafoam cleaner in the gas tank. Any thoughts on what to try next and whether the problem is electrical or fuel related? When the engine is running it runs fine - no missing or roughness to it.
 
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  #2  
Old 05-10-07, 12:29 PM
Azis
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It could be fuel or ignition and how I determine which in this case is...
Run it until it absolutely will not restart. Then try a splash of fuel in the carb. Run it again until it quits if it starts and repeat. If it does restart and then quit, try it again with no help, if it does not start add a splash again and see if it does start.
If you can get it to not start even by adding fuel, this is the time to check for spark. Rig up a test plug and have it handy. Check for spark, if you have none leave the test plug in place and come back or try when it cools off and check for spark. If you have spark after it cools, then I would lean toward the coil. It could still be in the ignition wiring but not as likely.

Also are you sure this is a V and not an opposed twin?
 
  #3  
Old 05-10-07, 12:39 PM
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This is a V twin. The engine will always start after it stalls until I do this 7 or 8 times. At that point the starter won't engage - everything is dead until
I let it cool down. The oil lights wont' even come on after stopping and starting several times or after running it at full throttle for a minute or two.
 
  #4  
Old 05-10-07, 02:07 PM
Azis
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It makes all the difference if the reason it eventually will not start is due to running the battery down or burning up the starter....
I would say you have a fuel delivery problem. If you have adjustments on the carb it could be as simple as that. Also try loosening the fuel cap. Otherwise it may require removing and servicing the carb if you have verified the rest of the fuel system.
 
  #5  
Old 05-10-07, 02:54 PM
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The battery doesn't wear down and the starter doesn't burn up. After I go through the stall and restart episodes for a while (number of times depends on outside temperature) the ignition doesn't turn over - not because the battery is down - it is like the whole electrical system is dead. I then let it cool down for about 30 minutes (again depending on outside temperature) and the engine starts right back up - no sign of low battery - it cranks over right away. Thanks for the help. Any more thoughts?
 
  #6  
Old 05-10-07, 09:29 PM
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How do the battery connections look? I tend to think the dead system is possibly related to another problem, but not sure. I'd start with the battery terminals, making sure they're nice and clean and tight. Then work to the end of the ground wire, and make sure it's clean and tight. If no problems are found there, get it to the point where the system is dead, and then take a test light and trace the power to the point where it is lost. Then you'll know what that problem is. That may or may not be the cause of your running problem.
 
  #7  
Old 05-11-07, 05:32 AM
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Battery connections are good. One of the battery cables was replaced late last year by the dealer. There must be something electrical that is being affected as the engine running temperature heats up the area under the hood or by higher outside temperatures. When the engine is first started when cold it always starts just fine. The cooler the outside temperature and the lower engine speed I run at the longer the engine will run before shutting down. If the weather is cool (50 - 60 degrees) and I don't go above 1/4 throttle it will run the entire time I cut my lawn - approximately 1 hour. After finishing the lawn if I increase the throttle to 3/4 or full the engine will cut out within a couple of minutes.

If the weather is warm (above 80 degrees) I can get the engine started right away, however even at lower RPMS the engine will begin cutting out right away.

Thanks for the help.
 
  #8  
Old 05-11-07, 06:48 AM
Azis
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Like I posted I think its fuel related. Outside temp has nothing to do with it.
 
  #9  
Old 05-11-07, 11:23 PM
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I think I would still track down the electrical problem first. Eliminate that. If the running problem still exists, then it can be tackled too. Do you have a 12v test light?
 
  #10  
Old 05-12-07, 03:17 AM
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I've been following along with the progress of this thread and it seems to me that you'll have a battery related issue. What I think you are encountering is a situation where the battery goes down during usage and because this engine should (and likely does) have a anti-afterfire solenoid attached to the carburetor, the low battery voltage is closing down the solenoid and, therefore, the fuel supply at the carburetor. The only thing that troubles me is the varying circumstances leading up to your instances of trouble. Does this engine have a fuel solenoid? Does this machine have an electric clutch? Do you run the headlights during use? Do you have any other accessories installed that require 12 volt power during use other than the aforementioned? Although by your running the engine at low RPM's should yield increased battery re-charging time, yet it appears that it actually increases run time, which goes against my theory but lets at least explore my theory. I think you may have either excessive draw on the battery or the regulator/rectifier is faulty. Do you have a satisfactory meter to read voltage/amperage/ohms? Do you have a test light? Do you have the Briggs service manual for your particular engine? Answer ALL my questions and also post back with ALL ID numbers related to both the engine and chassis (model, type and code on engine and model and serial on chassis) please!
 
  #11  
Old 05-12-07, 06:28 AM
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Can you get it to throttle up with the choke partially closed or bottle feeding it at the carb?
If an electrical problem, I think it may be intermittent if at all, and the symptoms don't really point to any one thing...? If the engine won't run long enough to cause the electrical problem to show up, or only briefly, it could wind up in a parts changing exercise.
I think Puey could be on to something...I certainly don't care for nor trust those fuel solenoids! Weak or bad ground can reak havoc with them.
 
  #12  
Old 05-12-07, 07:54 PM
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Answers to questions -
I am not real mechanically inclined and I don't have the testing equipment to
check the engine out electrically. I was hoping this would be something fairly simple that I could fix - especially since the dealer hasn't been able to get it in to look at it. I left it at the shop for a week and he didn't look at it. I brought it back home until he has an opening because at least I can cut with it at slow speed when it is cool outside. Here are the answers to your questions:
Does the engine have a fuel solenoid? I'm not sure
Electric clutch? No
Run with headlights on? No
No other accessories requiring 12 volt power during use.
I don't have a Briggs service manual.
Engine Model # 303777
Type 1111-E1
Code 99011411

Chasis - Simplicity Broadmoor
Serial #01098
PKG# 1693356
MFG#1693355

The battery is not showing any indication that it is low on charge. When I took it out of storage it cranked over right away - plenty of cranking power.
After stalling and restarting 4 or 5 times - battery still has plenty of cranking power.

Thanks for your help.
 
  #13  
Old 05-13-07, 12:29 AM
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I started to think fuel-solenoid too...even typed a reply including it, but then edited it before posting because I can't think of why increasing the speed would cause the solenoid to close or lose connection. Wierd. This is not a run-of-the-mill type problem, and it's going to take some diagnostics to get an idea of what's happening.

I do think that whatever is happening, it's probably solely an electrical problem. The loss of power to the system is allowing the fuel solenoid to close and stall the engine, but the solenoid isn't the cause of the problem. The loss of power is. (Like Puey61 is saying). Follow the positive wire from the battery to the starter solenoid. Is the cable connection there nice and tight?
 
  #14  
Old 05-13-07, 04:46 AM
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Thanks. I'll try to check the connection from the battery to the starter solenoid. Last fall shortly before I put my tractor away for the winter I had a problem with the starter continuing to engage even while the engine key was turned off. I brought it in to the shop at that time and they fixed it. If I remember right I think they said it was the starter solenoid. I wonder if that could somehow be related to what I am running into now? I can't remember if I mowed with the tractor last fall after having this fixed or whether I put it away before trying it out.
 
  #15  
Old 05-13-07, 08:53 AM
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It seems with each post we gain yet more valuable info. As cheese mentioned this does not seem to be a cut n dry situation. More times than not I think, these do wind up being electrical. I suggested determining whether it may be a fuel related issue because it is easy to do and requires no special equipment or knowledge. If it does show to be a fuel related problem, the cause could still be electrical, although fewer possibilities exist and the coil could basically be eliminated.
A test light is only a few bucks and easy to use with guidance. A couple of basic hand tools and some guidance, should allow you to at least narrow down some things.

With a bit more thought on this, the problem from last fall MAY not have been corrected...? Perhaps they solved the problem by changing a part or just wiggling connections or a short or....
Now that there is a different symptom, one common failing part that may connect the two would be the key switch...?
 
  #16  
Old 05-21-07, 09:35 AM
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The dealer was finally able to get this into his shop last week to take a look at it. On Monday the service tech diagnosed the problem as the voltage regulator. He said when he disconnected the voltage regulator the engine ran fine. He ordered a new regulator which didn't arrive until Thursday. He installed it and when I went to pick up the mower the engine had the same problem. At least he gave me a loaner to cut my yard over the weekend.
I haven't heard any more from him since. Any further thoughts what could be wrong with the latest information?
 
  #17  
Old 05-21-07, 08:25 PM
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I still maintain that it's an electrical problem. I'm trying to think of what could be affected by plugging in and unplugging the regulator. The only thing that comes to mind is that you may have a relay that is coming on/off with regulator current. Maybe the problem is related to this relay, if so equipped.
 

Last edited by cheese; 06-19-07 at 01:05 PM.
  #18  
Old 05-21-07, 09:06 PM
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craftsman 19.5 briggs twin

Same exact deal with a rider i worked on replaced everything except
coil(s) i thought that i had it licked when we replaced the top end of
the carb (4 screw) what a crappy carb no adjustment not even the
float but i called him today and it did the same thing so if you can
get this one figured out i'd be very intrested. Voltage reg??? that's
a new one!!!!
 
  #19  
Old 06-01-07, 09:09 AM
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Smile

Well - I just got my tractor back from the shop and it now runs fantastic even though it took a while. The stator had to be replaced and there was a fuel line with a slight crack in it. In the end it looks like it was both an electrical and fuel related problem. I am just happy to have it back. Cost of repair was $150 including 3 new mower blades and the dealer gave me a loaner to use while they were trying to figure mine out. Hopefully this might help someone in the future if they run into a similar problem.
 
  #20  
Old 06-02-07, 03:40 AM
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That's truely good news! A loaner, a bill for under $200, both issues taken care of, heck, even new blades, that is fantastic! Not to rain on your parade and I'm sure your problem is rectified, but, if you've used the mower only once since its return, this may not have been enough time for the battery to drain and thereby affect your operation. Keep your finger crossed and you should know no later than the third use of the mower if all is well.
 
  #21  
Old 06-19-07, 12:55 PM
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I have now used the mower several times and it works flawlessly. Nicest cut and yard in the neighborhood and very happy to be up and going again. I hope this helps someone if they have similar issues.
 
  #22  
Old 06-19-07, 01:18 PM
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Great! Glad you got it fixed, and sounds like you got good treatment from your shop.
 
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