86 JD 212 No Spark

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  #1  
Old 10-20-07, 10:11 PM
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86 JD 212 No Spark

Here is what's going on. I have an 86 john deere 212, for the longest time i thought i had carb problems. I would be out mowing the lawn (running fine) then all of a sudden the motor would start to cut out, (lose power & blowing A little black smoke)then it would come back to life.At times it would backfire through the muffler. Had the carb adjusted, ran great again, then would slip back into old habbits again.

Checked the points, found points way out of adjustment & needing to be replaced. Relaced the points, ran great again with no backfiring, then sliped back into old habbits again,(cutting out, lose of power,& a little black smoke again). I replaced the coil, plug wire, & had the carb re-adjusted. Ran great again, then same problem re-appeared.

I tested fuelpump, works fine, ran new fuel line from the tank to the pump,with a inline filter, & pump to the carb.Replaced the carb with a rebuilt one, In the process of adjusting the carb, (it did run) It quit , would not start. Checked for spark there was none. Well seeing how i replaced the points, coil, & plugwire, i started to think stator.(points appear to be adjusted & functioning properly)

This is where i'm at now. Yanked the motor out, pulled the flywheel off, removed the stator. i was going to get a new stator but i'm not really sure that is the problem. in the meantime the motor is all ripped apart. That brings me to here for some other ideas. I NEED HELP!!! to figure this one out. Anyone got any ideas for this problem. Thanks!!!
 
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  #2  
Old 10-21-07, 01:28 AM
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What did you check to give you the idea that the stator is bad? What engine is on this engine? On most engines, the stator has nothing to do with spark.
 
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Old 10-21-07, 07:38 AM
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I'm with Cheese. The stator is for lights & the charging system. If you changed points without removing the flywheel, it sounds like an older Kohler. Let us know the engine make & I.D. numbers & let us know if it's a battery or a mag type ign system.
 
  #4  
Old 10-21-07, 09:54 AM
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I did forget to mention that when it did run, with the PTO engaged the amp guage was reading discharge. The battery did die on me a couple times. threw a charge on it, then good to go until next time.

Kohler K301AQS
47640
ser 1602003484
 
  #5  
Old 10-21-07, 05:34 PM
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It sounds like you have a battery ignition Kohler unit. If the stator is not putting out, the electric clutch will pull the battery down to where you will not have enough volts to run the engine ignition, engine dies. Recharge the battery and you are good for a while again. With the stator in you can check you output with the engine running on full throttle, read 14.4 volts or close and you will see this at the battery posts also. This a low amp stator with a diode in the line coming out. If the diode is bad you will get nothing but if you check the lead between the diode and the stator you will have ac voltage of about 32 volts. Kohler makes a diode replacement part # 24-755-155-s if you need to replace the diode.
 
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Old 10-21-07, 05:36 PM
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You may be on the right track. This should be a battery ignition system, is it? In other words, is the ignition coil mounted outside the engine, black and a bit smaller than a can of Coors? If so, then you must have a good, strong battery in order to have sufficient spark at the spark plug. However, it is rare to have a stator (alternator) fail but it is more likely for the regulator/rectifier to fail. I'm unable to find specific information on your particular specification number engine, which is why I ask rather than point out. Does your engine have a starter/generator or a solenoid starter system? A starter/generator will be recognizable by a belt drive starting system.
 
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Old 10-21-07, 06:12 PM
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I still don't see how a bad stator would cause no-spark upon testing for spark??? It can cause loss of spark if the battery voltage drops too far while the engine is running, but if the battery is good enough to spin the engine well enough to check for spark, then it should spark even if you remove the stator entirely.
 
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Old 10-21-07, 06:35 PM
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The engine spins over with no problem, battery is fully charged. It is a solenoid/starter system. Now that it's apart i'm going to replace the wire between the coil & points, It looks like it seen better days. So you think it would be wise to change the voltage/rectifier, i often wonderd about that.
 
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Old 10-22-07, 06:37 PM
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If the wire between the coil & points is rubbed thru, This may be you're trouble. Don't change the rectifier till you've checked the charging systm voltage. No sence changing parts till you're really sure you need them,!! Good luck, Roger
 
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Old 10-22-07, 06:37 PM
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A stator or regulator/rectifier that has failed and no longer charging the battery will cause a loss of spark when the engine is running due to a loss of battery amperage and voltage as you run the engine. Battery ignition systems demand alot of power from the battery and if it isn't being recharged as you run it the battery will draw down and lose spark strength. At rest all lead acid batteries will regenerate themselves to a certain point...a point that is likely enough to generate spark the next time you try it. By the way, I've seen nowhere that you've replaced the condensor. Have you? If not, you should. As far as automatically replacing the reg/rec, I say no. You should sytematically test the charging system and replace only that which needs to be replaced.
 
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Old 10-22-07, 06:52 PM
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I nave not done anything with the condenser as of yet. well i think i'll slap it all back together & go from there. Do some more tests, for now
 
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Old 10-22-07, 07:44 PM
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That sounds like the best thing to do. You have an ignition problem causing the lack of spark. You might also have a charging problem, but that would be un-related.
 
  #13  
Old 10-23-07, 01:39 PM
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Thanks for all of your input's, will keep you informed.
 
  #14  
Old 11-03-07, 12:02 PM
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UPDATE Well i got it all back together- all it does is crank & crank, no fire. can someone tell me what i need to test & specifically how to test it,electrical is not my thing. is there supposed to be continuity on the plug wire, i have none on the new & old wire. I did replace the condensor, sparkplug. & the wire from the points to the coil. anymore ideas for me to try.
 
  #15  
Old 11-04-07, 07:30 AM
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You need to check for voltage on the + terminal of the
coil. Also, which terminal do you have the points and condenser hooked to? Take off the points cover while
trying to diagnose things, watch it while someone cranks.
Keep us informed..

Fish
 
  #16  
Old 11-04-07, 07:38 AM
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Points & condenser are hooked to the negative side
 
  #17  
Old 11-04-07, 08:10 AM
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Follow this link to the Kohler technical website, click on "Enter as Guest" the look for the K series engine that matches yours and you will find a downloadable service manual for the K series engines and there are well detailed service procedures for the ignition system that you have (battery). http://www.kohlerplus.com/login.asp
 
  #18  
Old 11-06-07, 09:23 AM
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I tested the positive side of the coil, i'm showing 12.73 volts with key on, & while cranking it over
 
  #19  
Old 11-06-07, 01:25 PM
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That's good but you'll basically have to start from scratch in systematically diagnosing the problem...Ignition, compression, carburetion.
 
  #20  
Old 11-06-07, 06:06 PM
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Remove the wire from the negative side of the coil. Using your ohmmeter, check for continuity from that wire to ground. Rotate the engine slowly by hand. When the points close, you should show a closed circuit on the meter, and an open circuit when the points open. If this is not the case, there is a problem with the points, wiring, or the adjustment of the points. Post with the results of this test.
 
  #21  
Old 11-06-07, 10:42 PM
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Update I tested thr negative side with a test lite, for some reason i'm now getting spark. The spark at the points is real erratic, looks like lightning bolts shooting everywhere. seems like i now need to focus there. I just cant figure out why all of a suden it would start working.
 
  #22  
Old 11-07-07, 06:44 AM
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Next step chech for correct gap on the points
 
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