Old Model Rototiller Question (Retitled Question)

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  #1  
Old 04-19-08, 12:01 PM
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Old Model Rototiller Question (Retitled Question)

I have acquired a free tiller at the purchase of my home 2 years ago. Best I can figure, it needs a good carb cleaning. It idles fine for a few minutes and then begins idling up and down constantly and eventually stalling out. Afterwards, it is hard to start. I have adjusted the spring and that really helped the idle. Still it continues to stall out. My real problem is, I can't locate any numbers that I would need to look up any parts information. I most likely have the service manual on the engine, but like I mentioned, I can't locate ANY information on the engine itself. If anyone can offer any help, I certainly would appreciate it. The tiller is made by Hahn and appears to be realatively old. Maybe mid to early 80's model. I'll post some photo's to help in identification. Thanks in advance............. ALAN









 

Last edited by k301s_first; 04-19-08 at 12:21 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-19-08, 01:09 PM
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The engine numbers are on the shroud just above the spark plug, it looks like your basic B&S. Messing with the governor spring will create more problems than it solves
You need to install a new diaphram kit, it is Briggs part # 795083 or old # 495770 also Lowe's has a kit #5083 which has the same parts.
Here we go;
Remove air cleaner, there are 2 bolts that hold things together, one on the front of the tank 3/8" and one into the block 1/2", remove these bolts, now "slowly" slide the carb/tank off the intake tube and breather tube, now tilt the tank in to release the throttle linkage and waalaa the carb/tank is removed. Remove the 5 screws from the carb/tank remove carb(don't loose the spring) now spray all holes, cracks and crevases in both the carb and tank surface with brake parts cleaner, remove the main screen(looks like a thimble) with a small screwdriver pry out the main jet(carefully) and clean it, reinstall the jet, it can be difficult some times to get it to snap back in place(I use the rounded end of a screwdriver handle). Remove and clean the fuel pickup stem. Clean any junk/rust from the tank. Install the diaphram on the tank then the gasket(no goo or sealer) now carefully replace the carb(the spring will try to misalign the diaphram), tighten all screws a little at a time so as not to crimp the diaphram until they are all tight. Install the carb/tank in reverse order and you are done. If I missed something one of the real mechanics will correct me. Have a good one. Geo
 
  #3  
Old 04-19-08, 01:16 PM
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This is a very common problem with older B & G's, but I can't recall off hand what the actual cause is. I remember tho' that if you grab the flywheel plastic air vane and pull it, then the oscillating goes away and the engine races to beat the band.

This was such a common problem that I'm sure many people took a sledgehammer to their engines! You could also shut them off for a minute to say pull some weeds or pick up something laying in the yard, and after it was running fine, it no longer would start, until later on. Almost every one of these I ever owned, did both your described symptoms, at one time or another.

Perhaps you should pm some of those you respect the most in the lawnmower forum here - as I said this is a real typical problem with this engine. I have carcasses of these in a garage.

[Note: I see this IS the forum. Hmm. Not enough people around today, I guess.]

I see Geo posted while I was typing and perhaps he solved the issue.
 
  #4  
Old 04-19-08, 01:30 PM
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<CENTER>Hahn, Inc.</CENTER><CENTER>later</CENTER><CENTER>Hahn-Eclipse</CENTER><CENTER>2000 N. Sixth Avenue

Evansville 7, Indiana</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER>
Credit: Donald's Antique Rototillers
 
  #5  
Old 04-19-08, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by geogrubb View Post
The engine numbers are on the shroud just above the spark plug, it looks like your basic B&S. Messing with the governor spring will create more problems than it solves
You need to install a new diaphram kit, it is Briggs part # 795083 or old # 495770 also Lowe's has a kit #5083 which has the same parts.
Here we go;
Remove air cleaner, there are 2 bolts that hold things together, one on the front of the tank 3/8" and one into the block 1/2", remove these bolts, now "slowly" slide the carb/tank off the intake tube and breather tube, now tilt the tank in to release the throttle linkage and waalaa the carb/tank is removed. Remove the 5 screws from the carb/tank remove carb(don't loose the spring) now spray all holes, cracks and crevases in both the carb and tank surface with brake parts cleaner, remove the main screen(looks like a thimble) with a small screwdriver pry out the main jet(carefully) and clean it, reinstall the jet, it can be difficult some times to get it to snap back in place(I use the rounded end of a screwdriver handle). Remove and clean the fuel pickup stem. Clean any junk/rust from the tank. Install the diaphram on the tank then the gasket(no goo or sealer) now carefully replace the carb(the spring will try to misalign the diaphram), tighten all screws a little at a time so as not to crimp the diaphram until they are all tight. Install the carb/tank in reverse order and you are done. If I missed something one of the real mechanics will correct me. Have a good one. Geo

Thanks for the much needed info!!! Since posting the message, I have found that by rapping on the top side of the tank, I could get it to idle fine again after the yo-yo'ing started and the engine would settle down once again and keep running. I actually tilled almost half my garden doing so. Once again frustrated, I removed the cap to the fuel cell and noticed it had a small tube like that off a can of w/d 40 down in the tank! I'm going to try to remove it and see what, if anything, changes before messing with the carb/tank. I'll be back........ Thanks again for the fast reply's gentlemen!!!!...................... ALAN
 
  #6  
Old 04-19-08, 03:20 PM
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O.K......... I somehow managed to get that darn stem out of there and tilled what was left of the garden. The problem still persists, however, it ins't as frequent as before. It will run for a little while and then start acting up once again. A rap to the top side of the tank will temporarily "fix" the problem. My guess is that I have a fuel restriction. Possibly on the bottom side of the carb inside the tank. If removed, will I need to purchase a replacement seal, or can I get by with the old one if carefully removed? Also, can I put a couple of rocks in the tank to aide in removale of the gunk in there? Thanks again........... ALAN
 
  #7  
Old 04-19-08, 06:16 PM
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We are obviously on different pages of the fixit book so I will discontinue my suggestions for now. Have a good one. Geo
 
  #8  
Old 04-19-08, 07:57 PM
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Remove and clean the fuel pickup stem. Clean any junk/rust from the tank.
Not trying to sound ignorant here, but, years ago I was told that you should put something in these metal tanks to aide in the removal of larger particles of rust and what not inside. I was thinking of inserting three small stones and shaking the tank vigorously to help get the job done. Obviously, the tank would then need to be thoroughly flushed prior to reassembly. Maybe you won't be offended if it's spelled out in a way which you can relate to and understand exactly what page of the "fixit" book that I'm on. Sorry if you misunderstood my thinking logic. Surely you get the picture now? Is it not recommended to soak the carb in carb cleaner and blow out the passages with compressed air? Also, there IS a gasket between the tank and carb....... right? Will this need to be replaced or can I re-install it if not damaged once removed? Once again, thanks for the most helpful information Geo!! It is much appreciated!!! I can tell that you have had to deal with nut cases on too many occasions. I didn't mean to offend and I certainly wasn't trying to be a smarta**. With that said, thanks again.......... :-) .......... ALAN
 

Last edited by k301s_first; 04-19-08 at 09:19 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-19-08, 09:08 PM
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Yes, you'll want to clean out the tank by any safe means necessary, and the carb, and replace the diphragm as noted.
 
  #10  
Old 04-19-08, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cheese View Post
Yes, you'll want to clean out the tank by any safe means necessary, and the carb, and replace the diphragm as noted.
1) Ok.....we're good on the tank now. Great!!!

2) Soak the carb overnight in carb cleaner and blow dry with compressed air...... or not?

3) Replace the diaphram with a new one...... or are you suggesting I clean the one that I have on hand and re-install it?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean in your post. I just want to make sure I get this right the first time around. Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks for helping............... ALAN
 
  #11  
Old 04-19-08, 09:36 PM
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Soaking the carb and blowing it out is great. Overnite may be ok, but check the procedure on the can and follow that.

Replace the diaphragm with a new one. They get old and stiff, and don't work properly anymore.
 
  #12  
Old 04-19-08, 09:46 PM
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Thank you for clearing these questions up. The can of carb cleaner that I have is the gallon size can with a dipping basket. It was purchased at NAPA for the sole purpose of cleaning the carbs on my outboard. Generally, I let my outboard carbs soak overnight with no ill effects. The diaphram on the briggs engine, however, raised some concern for me. I will soak the carb and follow the advice in the thread to the letter. Thanks a bunch for the help guys!!!!! Very much appreciated!!!!................. ALAN
 
  #13  
Old 04-20-08, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cheese View Post
Replace the diaphragm with a new one. They get old and stiff, and don't work properly anymore.
Plumbing fixtures also utilize diaphrams in some devices, and I could not agree more. You look at one, try to be a cheapskate, clean it, re-install it, and the device does not work. I have presumed the rubber distorts or stretches beyond it's operating range just enough - or yes - perhaps stiff..... Put in new one and then it works.
 
  #14  
Old 04-21-08, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Plumbing fixtures also utilize diaphrams in some devices, and I could not agree more. You look at one, try to be a cheapskate, clean it, re-install it, and the device does not work. I have presumed the rubber distorts or stretches beyond it's operating range just enough - or yes - perhaps stiff..... Put in new one and then it works.
Will do. Thanks again!!!!...........................ALAN
 
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