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Lawn Boy YT 14h Won't crank Help!!!


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04-19-08, 04:27 PM   #1  
Lawn Boy YT 14h Won't crank Help!!!

I have a Lawn Boy YT 14H yard tractor (model number 32163). It will not crank. Replaced the battery, but no go. The Ammeter on the "dash" jumps to negative 15 amps when the ignition switch is turned to start. Tried disconnecting the rider safety switch, checked the inline fuse, even tried jump starting. None worked. It doesn't even try to turn over. Could it be a bad starter?

I tried to get troubleshooting info from the Lawn Boy website, but they only make zero turn riders now, so there is no info for an older tractor.

Also, the lights do not come on. I don't know if that helps diagnose the problem.


Last edited by Dmiller102; 04-19-08 at 04:29 PM. Reason: add'l info
 
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04-19-08, 06:01 PM   #2  
Does this unit click or anything when the key is turned ?

Is there a chance you mis-read the first digit of the model number ?

I couldn't find that model number with any of my resources, I did find a YT14H with a model number being 52163.

Is your unit a hydro drive and look like the one below ?





Also, One last question. Can you post all the model numbers off the engine ?

Sorry for all the questions.......

 
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04-19-08, 06:49 PM   #3  
Lawn Boy yt

That looks like it. I may have misread the number. There is no clicking, there is nothing when the key is turned.

I'll get the rest of the numbers in the am. It has a Kokler (sp?) 14 horse engine.

 
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04-19-08, 07:27 PM   #4  
OK, While your getting more numbers you said you tried to jump start it. Was this with jumper cables on the new battery ?

If yes, Try jumping right to the starter and see if it will spin.

 
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04-20-08, 12:23 PM   #5  
Engine numbers

Yes, I tried jumping with jumper cables to the new battery. I won't be able to try jumping to the starter today, because the weather here is horrible. I will try on Monday. I am assuming I hook the hot lead to the starter and the negative to a ground? If it spinns then I have a good starter, and it must be bad wiring? If no spin then bad starter?

Here are the engine numbers:
Kohler Command 14 OHV
Model number Cv14s
Spec Number 20265024B4

I noticed while getting the engine numbers that there is a wire coming off th ammeter that goes nowhere. It has a quick connect on the end of it, but it goes to nothing. There are also tow other wires. One leads to the ingition switch, the other to a wire bundle. From there I can't tell where it goes.

You were right, the mower model number is 52163 not 32163.

 
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04-20-08, 01:38 PM   #6  
Posted By: Dmiller102 I am assuming I hook the hot lead to the starter and the negative to a ground? If it spinns then I have a good starter, and it must be bad wiring? If no spin then bad starter?
That's correct, But hook the hot to the starter and touch the neg to the frame/block. Just so you don't pee yourself the neg will spark a little when connected.

 
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04-24-08, 03:34 PM   #7  
Starter jump

Sorry it took so long. The weather finally cleared. The starter spun like a champ. Of course the mower itself did not start, but teh starter did spin. What's the next step?

 
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04-24-08, 05:30 PM   #8  
With the use of a automotive test light or multimeter check for voltage on the small wire on the solenoid when the key is in the start position with the clutch/brake pedal pushed.

If there is no voltage look under the left side (sitting in seat) of the unit and there will be a switch, Unplug this switch and test across the two switch post with a multimeter to see if it's closing when the clutch/brake is pushed. If it isn't closing replace this switch.

If this switch is found to be working we will go to the next step.

Good Luck

 
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05-02-08, 04:01 PM   #9  
Brake Switch

Switch checed good. I have tried to find a decent wire diagram for this mower so I can troubleshoot further, but haven't had any luck.

I tried with the seat switches desconnected (there are two switches under the seat), but no joy.

I am still confused about the loose wire coming off the ammeter. Any ideas on that one?

 
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05-02-08, 05:28 PM   #10  
Posted By: Dmiller102 I am still confused about the loose wire coming off the ammeter. Any ideas on that one?
I wouldn't worry about this wire, Some OEM's have their harness's built to fit multiple units or units with different options thus extra wires are not un-common.

I checked all my resources as well and didn't find a wire diagram.

Did you by chance check the seat switches with your meter ?

I'm not sure about this older unit but they could be tied into the start circuit.

The only other switch that could cause this is the PTO, It has a safety switch inside it as well that can be tested as the clutch switch was.

Then of course you have the "S" post on the ignition switch that can be tested for voltage in the start position, Could be a break in the wire going to the solenoid ?

Anyway keep us posted on these other test.....

Good Luck

 
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05-05-08, 02:53 PM   #11  
Think it's the solenoid

The solenoid showed nothing on the multimeter. Must be the problem. I'll replace it and let you know. Is there a way to bypass all other the switches permenantly? I haven't checked all of them yet. If this goes like other electrical problems I've had on other vehicles (I work on aircraft), then I could fix the solenoid just to find another problem. I know the PTO can't be bypassed, but can I just cut the other switches out of the loop? I will most likely replace them all over time, but in the mean time, my grass is out of control!!!!!! I have a push mower, but the yard is way too big. I have been cutting in sections, so as soon as I finish one section the others look like they have never been cut!!!!!!!!

 
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05-05-08, 05:22 PM   #12  
If you didn't get any voltage to the small wire on the solenoid with the key in the start position the solenoid may be good and it's most likely one of the other switches that's preventing power to the solenoid.


OK, Just for temporary use until you get a chance to check the rest of the switches you can disconnect the white engine kill wire near the starter and this will let the engine fire.

With the key in the run position so the charging system will operate jump the two large post on the solenoid together with a screwdriver to spin the engine over, Doing all the above should let the engine run. But, USE CAUTION....None of the safety switches will function and the only way to kill/shut the engine off it short this white wire coming out of the top cover near the starter to any ground or pull the plug wire off.

Again USE CAUTION !

Cya

 
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05-10-08, 02:29 PM   #13  
Did it but still no joy on the engine. Starter spins great when arching accross the solenoid, but it still did not start. The only white wire I could find was on the PTO. It runs from the PTO to several lights, then into a wire bundle. I could not track it any farther than that. I disconnected the white wire at the PTO and tried starting.

 
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05-10-08, 06:42 PM   #14  
Man, I just had a brain fart.....

Is there a black rectangle box with wires going to it mounted to the flywheel cover ?

Also, I need you to look at your engine model number tag again. You have posted the model and serial numbers but I also need the specification (spec.) number to see your exact engine.....

 
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05-10-08, 07:01 PM   #15  
Posted By: 31YTech Man, I just had a brain fart.....

Is there a black rectangle box with wires going to it mounted to the flywheel cover?
Yes, there is. It has three wires connected to it. I'll get the spec numbe in the am.

 
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05-10-08, 07:09 PM   #16  
Inline fuse

What amperage should the fuse be? The guy I got the mower from had a 25 amp fuse in it, but said he thought it was supposed to be a 30 amp. When I arched accross the solenoid, the fuse blew.

 
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05-10-08, 07:26 PM   #17  
With the electric PTO clutch it should be a 30 amp, Also it shouldn't have blown unless you hit ground while jumping. This black box puts a new spin on things.

Replace the fuse, There should be a red wire going to this box. By the way, This box is called a SAM (spark advance module).

Check for battery voltage on this red wire with the key in the run position then let me know what you get.....

 
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05-11-08, 10:12 AM   #18  
Engine Spc #

The engine spec number is 1430. It is a Kohler Command 14 OHV, model number CV14S.

What does the S.A.M. do exactly? That is a new one on me. I'll check it for juice sometime today.
(Still cutting the grass in sections with a little push mower!)

In fact my push mower has problems now. I think the rings are bad. It fowled the plug yesterday. I just changed the plug when the season started, so it should be good for a while. It has a 6.5 horse Briggs and Stratton. It is only about 5 years old, so it should be fine. Any way, one mower at a time! Let's get the rider working first.

Thanks for all your help so far!

 
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05-11-08, 12:27 PM   #19  
Posted By: Dmiller102 What does the S.A.M. do exactly?

Well, You can read for yourself and maybe understand better than if I explained;



 
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05-15-08, 02:48 PM   #20  
S.a.m.

Haven't had a chance to check it yet. I also cannot find a part number for it. I can see it on the schematics on lawnboy.com, but there is no part number. If I have to replace it, where can I get a new one? In reading its function, I assume it is not bypassable, so I may need a new one.

 
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05-15-08, 07:09 PM   #21  
Posted By: Dmiller102 I assume it is not bypassable
Sent you a PM with more details......

You could probably replace it for less than the cost to bypass/do away with it.

I couldn't find a listing either but will get a part number tomorrow when at the shop.

Cya

 
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06-12-08, 09:40 AM   #22  
Sorry, I've been out of town the past couple of weeks. I'll give it a shot witha multimeter.

 
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06-21-08, 04:31 PM   #23  
Sam

Had to go out of town again. What I thought was the S.A.M. is actually the rectifier. I found the engine manual on Kohler.com for the Command Pro 14 (CV14). The manual shows info on several models, some with an S.A.M., some without. I'm not sure if mine has one. I can't find anything on it that looks unusual to me.

I have discovered that there is no spark. I changed the plug, next I will check the plug wire to see if there is even voltage. Is there any other reason for no spark?

 
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06-22-08, 12:45 AM   #24  
If yours doesn't have the SAM, then unplug the kill wire from the coil and check for spark again. If still no spark, then the coil is bad.


"Who is John Galt?" - Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)

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06-22-08, 09:02 AM   #25  
No Spark

Roger that. I'll give it a shot.

 
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06-22-08, 09:50 AM   #26  
Ignition Module

Mine has an ignition module, AKA S.A.M. I found it in the troubleshooting section of the manual I downloaded from Kohler. It is under the blower cover, and heat shield. Getting to it is going to be a pain, and there is no way to test it on the engine without removing the muffler, blower cover, and heat shield. I am reading through the test procedures now, and will let you know what I find. On other models also covered by my manual, the book shows a no kidding S.A.M., and it is much easier to get to than the ignition module mine has. Reading through the operation of both, they do exactly the same thing. It almost looks as if the ignition module is an older version of a Spark Advance Module.

 
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06-22-08, 03:13 PM   #27  
Ignition Module

I've been trying to find a part number for the ignition module in case it is bad. Found it on jackssmallengines.com, but they say it is discontinued, and no longer available. Is there a replacement that someone knows of? I have tried calling Kohler, but was on hold for 25 minutes, then got diconnected.

 
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06-23-08, 12:04 AM   #28  
The SAM is a big rectangular box with I think 5 wires coming out of it. Is that what you're looking at? It's mounted externally on the engine blower shroud. Usually Kohler calls the coils ignition modules...and that's what it sounds like you're descrbing. What # do you have?


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06-26-08, 07:26 AM   #29  
Ignition

The part number I got off Jack's is KO12 584 04-S. In the picture it is index number 17.


 
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06-26-08, 10:34 AM   #30  
I assumed the 15 amps was the current pulling in the starter solenoid.
Engines need a spark advance because at high speed the time from the spark to the time of maximum cylinder pressure can be significant, and you want this maximum pressure when the piston is at the right place in the cylinder.
Cars used to have a vacuum advance which depended on manifold pressure (motor loading) and a centrifugual advance which just depended on RPM. Way old cars had a manual advance.
Too much advance = engine knock

 
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06-27-08, 12:18 AM   #31  
#17 is the coil. I don't think you have a SAM or you would have noticed it by now. It's probably about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and mounted externally, so if you don't see it, it's not there.


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