Toro Personal Pace Drive Problem

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  #1  
Old 05-14-08, 06:36 AM
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Toro Personal Pace Drive Problem

Model 20031 bought in '04. No problems until now. Mower barely moves forward and can't be pulled backwards. Can hear either an intermittent grinding noise or belt slipping noise. Was working fine 4 days ago. Any help would be appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 05-14-08, 10:50 AM
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I've never worked on one, but sometimes a lot can be figured out with a carefull "look see". Remove the plug wire, clean off all the grass and dirt and with a bright trouble light inspect the drive train to see what spins and shouldn't and what doesn't move that should.
 
  #3  
Old 05-14-08, 12:35 PM
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I have run across similar problems on a couple of units this year already, on both of them it was the bearing on the input shaft. The grease had dried out in the bearing and it was binding. It was not letting the shaft spin freely, this resulted in a grinding noise when the drive system was engaged and was almost impossible to move backwards.

The bad part about this, is that the transmission really needs to be removed in order to repair it. To remove the transmission you need to remove both drive wheels, all the gears, spacers, keepers, etc. and both rear pivot arm assemblies which also hold the handles on.

TORO Part # 100-1048 BEARING-BALL
 
  #4  
Old 05-14-08, 03:32 PM
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Many thanks AAWrench. I'll order the bearing and go from there.
 
  #5  
Old 05-17-08, 06:56 AM
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Since the bearing was going to take a few days to get here (Atlanta), I decided to tear down to it. Found the belt was jammed up against the rear guide and one of the rear wheels broken. Reassembled with new wheel ($24) and everything works fine. Disappointed with the wheel quality vs the older Toro's, but it seems there's more plastic in everything being made and the cost savings drive the mfg. I recall $35 for an older model wheel. There's a great post by Camino Kid (3-18-07) that covers this problem (small stick pushing the belt off) and how it happens. Also has a good procedure for diagnosis. My guess is I broke the wheel trying to pull it it backwards with the rear wheels locked.
Thanks again to you, bontai Joe, and CAMINO KID.
 
  #6  
Old 06-04-08, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AAWrench View Post
...on both of them it was the bearing on the input shaft. The grease had dried out in the bearing and it was binding. It was not letting the shaft spin freely, this resulted in a grinding noise when the drive system was engaged and was almost impossible to move backwards.
Would this also be true if the Personal Pace drive quit working? I first had the left rear wheel stop (disengaged) with all power going to the right real wheel. Then both quit.

I replaced everything from the thrust washer out on both sides...wheels, gears, everything. Put it all back together and now the wheels won't budge. Did I not put it back together correctly?
 
  #7  
Old 06-04-08, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle79 View Post
Would this also be true if the Personal Pace drive quit working? I first had the left rear wheel stop (disengaged) with all power going to the right real wheel. Then both quit.

I replaced everything from the thrust washer out on both sides...wheels, gears, everything. Put it all back together and now the wheels won't budge. Did I not put it back together correctly?
What model Toro do you have??

Did the drive gears on the axle spin freely before you reinstalled the wheels?
 
  #8  
Old 06-05-08, 06:58 AM
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Thanks for the reply AA.

It's a 20043 and I honestly don't remember if the gears spun freely. I'm thinking I must have put it back together wrong...probably that key. Now that I think about it there was one for L and one for R. I may try to switch them.
 
  #9  
Old 06-05-08, 10:52 AM
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Well, that partially worked. The wheels move forward but only the R moves backward easily...the L doesn't move freely.

I started the mower anyway and engaged the transmission - nothing happened. I took off the belt cover and tried again to see what was going on. The belt moves but the axle just barely rotates.

I do have that whining (grinding?) noise so I am going to replace the bearing next. I should have bought one of those with the other parts. Actually I should have found this place first.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
 
  #10  
Old 06-05-08, 02:14 PM
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The gears are the same for both sides, but you have to make sure the correct side is facing out. There are different rocker keys though, one for the left and one for the right side.

If the axle is not moving much when the pulley is turning, then the gears may be damaged or the pin that holds the gear to the axle shaft may be broken.

You can remove the bottom cover off of your transmission without removing the assembly from the mower. Take the four bolts out and carefully pull the bottom cover off, you can inspect the condition of the gears.

If you have not already done so, go to the Toro website and look at a parts breakdown of your transmission, this may help you to identify any needed parts.
 
  #11  
Old 06-06-08, 05:22 AM
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I would think this is the reason I am seeing so many Toro self propelled mowers for sale on ebay thiese days. Many of them state a problem with the self propelled feature. Seems to also be a problem on the new Hondas also. I was buying 1-3 mowers off ebay per year, fixing them and selling them. I do it as a hobby, however lately, I have been staying away.
 
  #12  
Old 06-06-08, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AAWrench View Post
...but you have to make sure the correct side is facing out. There are different rocker keys though, one for the left and one for the right side.
Bingo! That did the trick. As for the gear box, I tore it apart last night to install a new bearing however I don't think the old bearing was bad. I did look at the gears but not having a frame of reference couldn't tell if they were worn or not. They did look a little shiny and one tooth was missing on the beveled gear. When I rotated the gear box around the shaft, the pulley turned so my logical brain tells me they should be OK.

I guess the next step is to replace those gears anyway. If it weren't for the fact that the small engine repairs shops were 2-3 weeks out on repairs this time of year, I would just leave it to them.

Thanks for your help, AA.
 
  #13  
Old 06-06-08, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jl66redcpe View Post
I would think this is the reason I am seeing so many Toro self propelled mowers for sale on ebay thiese days. Many of them state a problem with the self propelled feature.
This one is a 1999 model and this is the first problem I have had with it. I'd say 8-9 years with just preventive maintenance is pretty good. I don't know about the newer models, perhaps they are well maintained?
 
  #14  
Old 07-01-08, 06:38 PM
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I purchased my Toro Self Paced rear wheel drive mower August 2007. Last weekend the rear wheels locked when backing up, and the rear wheels turning are very weak. I took the cover off of the belt that is hooked to the blade shaft, and it seems like it on track. I couldn't see the area where near the wheel without removing the wheel assembly.

Does this sound like a transmission problem? This mower has a 2 year warranty, so this should be covered, correct? I planned on calling around tomorrow to find the local Toro repair center.
 
  #15  
Old 07-01-08, 07:18 PM
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Yes, this should be covered under the warranty, as long as it's not a normal wear issue. If your just using it on your own lawn and not mowing several yards with it, any failure should be covered.
 
  #16  
Old 07-01-08, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AAWrench View Post
Yes, this should be covered under the warranty, as long as it's not a normal wear issue. If your just using it on your own lawn and not mowing several yards with it, any failure should be covered.
Yep, home use. I'm a bit disappointed that this lawn mower has issues so soon. My last lawn mower was a Murray 20" that I bought for $100 (refurb). It lasted 8 years. I moved into a bigger house and wanted a self propelled. I purchased the Toro based on the brand reputation. Sounds like they have cheap components. I found the nearby service center, its about 20min away. Hopefully they don't give me any issues with the warranty.
 
  #17  
Old 07-01-08, 08:41 PM
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The steel deck Toro's are their entry level mowers, they are price point units and built to compete in their price level, where they do very well. Toro has always been very customer service oriented and I don't think you should have any problems with a warranty claim.

I personally own a 1983 model Toro mower and have never had a single issue with it. It still has the original drive belts gears and tires on it, and I use it every week through the mowing season, which runs from February through early November (as long as we get some rain).
 
  #18  
Old 08-18-10, 05:17 AM
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A lttle grease helps

My 2-year-old 20092 Super Recycler mower developed the can't-back-up problem over the last couple of months. After reading this and other forums, and the owner's manual, I found out about the recommended maintenance, which includes greasing the gearcases behind each rear wheel. The Zerk fittings are cleverly hidden, and covered with old grass clippings, but in my case I found them, greased both sides, and the problem seems to be solved.
 
  #19  
Old 08-18-12, 03:46 PM
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How do i post a new thread sorry about this reply.Someone please help.
 
  #20  
Old 08-19-12, 04:02 AM
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First, you've got to get out of this thread. At the top of this thread, you'll see a navigation bar:

Forum->Cars, ... ->Outdoor Gasoline Powered Equipment and Small Engines

If you click on any one of the links, you'll get to a page where you can start a new thread. Be sure you're in a forum that's appropriate to the thread you want to start. Clicking on "Forum" will get you to the very top of the tree, and you can work your way down from there; if you click on the last link, you'll get to the forum that contains this thread, etc.

Once you get to the forum you want, there's a big "+ Post New Thread" button at the top left.

Just noticed an even simpler way. At the bottom of this thread, there's a "Quick Navigation" button at the right. Click on that and there's a complete display of the Forum structure. Click on the topic that appeals to you.
 

Last edited by DrMikey; 08-19-12 at 05:11 AM.
  #21  
Old 10-02-12, 12:48 PM
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Question Proper Gear Installation Toro PP 20066

I have been reading thru this thread on replacing the tranny and gears, etc. I have a 2008 model #20066.

My question is which way do the rear wheel gears go back on the axle shaft. Both gears have an "R" on them. Does that "R" face in towards the center or out towards the wheel.

Thanks in advance

 
  #22  
Old 10-03-12, 06:23 AM
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Usually the R means it's a right-side gear, and the R goes on the outside. ("L" on the outside of the left-hand gear.) I'm no expert, but it looks like the gears might be interchangeable if they were reversed -- that is, a gear marked "R" might be usable on the left side if the R were placed on the inside.
 
  #23  
Old 10-03-12, 07:02 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I got everything back together in what I thought was n OK fashion., however the mower will pull backwards OK but is licked going to the front. My immediate thought was that the gears were reversed. I took the wheels off and turned them around with the same results. Any thoughts on that? I assume that the key goes in the slot with the rounded side down, could that not be correct?
 
  #24  
Old 10-04-12, 05:04 AM
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Based on the Toro Parts Manual for that model (3358-407 Rev A), I think that's correct, and is the normal way to install a Woodruff key, if that's the "key" you're referring to (p/n 612066, Ref number 15 in the Rear Axle and Transmission Assembly diagram on page 6). That manual is available as a PDF online, and I found it to be very useful -- use the Adobe Reader magnifier and you can zoom in to see great detail for every part on the mower (and engine). Go to https://lookup3.toro.com/request/request.cfm, enter your model number and serial number, and Viola!

Taking my own advice, I looked closely at the diagram to see if I could figure out just how the drive worked. It looks like the little key isn't a normal Woodruff key (fixed, used to hold something like a flywheel on a shaft), but it is free to be pushed up into the funny recesses in the pinion gear by the spring (part ref #14). Those ramped recesses allow the key to be pushed down into the axle groove if the gear is turning in one direction (i.e., when you're pulling the mower backwards), but with the axle turning in the go-forward direction, the key is pushed up into the pinion gear and forces it to turn.

You did reinstall the little springs under the keys, didn't you? Or did they fly off unnoticed into never-findit land when you took it apart? If the springs were missing, you'd be able to manually move the mower in either direction, but the axle wouldn't be able to engage the pinion gear at all.
 

Last edited by DrMikey; 10-04-12 at 05:23 AM. Reason: Added last 2 paragraphs
  #25  
Old 10-04-12, 05:03 PM
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Thanks for the help....all done
 
  #26  
Old 08-16-13, 10:14 AM
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Personal Pace doesn't drive

I have a model 20043 recycler that has a problem driving the axle. The pulley driving the transmission spins when engaged, but the axle doesn't turn. I've had the trans apart and it appears that the gear on the axle drives a roll pin to turn the axle, but, won't stay on the roll pin. What am I missing?
 
  #27  
Old 08-17-13, 01:29 PM
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What's your serial number?
 
  #28  
Old 05-12-14, 09:42 AM
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2008 Toro 20066 PP wheel gear replcement

I am replacing the right rear wheel of my Toro 20066 (280021283). The gear-pinion (#105-3040) has an "L" on one side. When placing the gear-pinion back, should the "L" be on the inside or the outside as I stand behind the mower. Again this is the right side as I stand behind the mower? Thank you.
 
  #29  
Old 05-13-14, 04:40 AM
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See Post Number twenty-two. If you want to see why I spelled out those numbers, try to submit a post that says "See #22".
 
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