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chainsaw problem


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06-23-09, 04:46 PM   #1  
chainsaw problem

My gas-powered chainsaw doesnt seem to be getting any gas. It will only start and run for a brief time if I put a few teaspoons or so of gas into the spark plug hole. Otherwise, it doesnt seem to be pulling/pumping any gas into the carburetor from the gas tank. Carburetor looks dry, not getting any gas. What could likely be the problem, what can I check? Gas tank is full of gas.

 
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06-23-09, 05:11 PM   #2  
Fuel filter and some details on your saw...?

 
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06-23-09, 05:19 PM   #3  
Posted By: BFHFixit Fuel filter and some details on your saw...?
Sachs Dolmar is the make. Model 114. Fuel filter/strainer seems to be located on end of pick-up tube in gas tank? Does that seem right?

 
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06-23-09, 08:54 PM   #4  
Yep, that's where it is. Did you inspect the internal parts of the carb (diaphragm and needle)?


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06-23-09, 09:50 PM   #5  
Posted By: cheese Yep, that's where it is. Did you inspect the internal parts of the carb (diaphragm and needle)?
No, I'm no good at tearing into carbs. I wouldn't have a clue how to tell whether the diaphragm and/or needle looked okay or not. I could probably replace the fuel filter, if I could find a new replacement, but no place has parts for this saw.

 
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06-23-09, 11:44 PM   #6  
Dolmar was bought by makita. They are excellent tools, designed for heavy duty professionals (the modern makitas have gone downhill). Try speaking to your loacal makita dealer, they may be able to help.

 
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06-24-09, 08:11 PM   #7  
Take the carb off & take it to you're nearest small engine shop.. The carb will use a common kit & if you don't feel comfortable, Have the shop install the kit... These older Dolmars are well worth the money of a kit & a little labor, as you would be hard pressed to find a better one for the price of a carb repair... Roger

 
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06-24-09, 08:15 PM   #8  
Agreed. The fuel filter should match up with a number of generic ones used by small engine shops.


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06-24-09, 10:27 PM   #9  
Posted By: hopkinsr2 Take the carb off & take it to you're nearest small engine shop.. The carb will use a common kit & if you don't feel comfortable, Have the shop install the kit... These older Dolmars are well worth the money of a kit & a little labor, as you would be hard pressed to find a better one for the price of a carb repairr
I'd like to see first how well it might run if I try simply replacing the fuel filter, but I need to find a source where I can get the right one, unless perhaps there would be appropriate substitute from some other saw that could work (but I kinda doubt it). Where I live there is no Makita or Dolmar dealer locally. I'll need to try and track down a filter online I guess, so far haven't really had any luck, not much info on this particular saw anywhere. Not sure if it may just be a clogged filter, or plugged fuel line maybe, and not necessarily the carb (although of course it wouldnt hurt of course to rebuild th carb. I could probably do it myself if I really tried). I'm fairly certain this old saw sat out in a shed for several years without being used and with fuel in the tank. Previous owner (unknown) donated it to the place where I work some years ago, and it is basically mine now to use, if I can get it running. Other than the fuel problem the saw seems to be in pretty decent shape otherwise. Yeah, I've heard and read these old Domar Sachs saws are hard to beat; I'm definitely interested in getting it into good running shape again if I can. I did notice there was a source online where I could buy an original service manual for this particular saw for about 15 bucks if I wanted.

 
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06-24-09, 11:34 PM   #10  
Posted By: cheese Agreed. The fuel filter should match up with a number of generic ones used by small engine shops.
.

 
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06-24-09, 11:47 PM   #11  
Some of the dolmar two strokes used kawi engines, I don't know if yours did?

 
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06-24-09, 11:49 PM   #12  
Posted By: cheese Agreed. The fuel filter should match up with a number of generic ones used by small engine shops.
Okay good! Somehow I overlooked your above post before my last reply saying how I doubt any other filter will work. I'll check around then, should be able to come up with a generic easy enough. thanks

 
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06-25-09, 04:13 AM   #13  
If this sat around for a few years idle, I suspect the carb just needs cleaning. Orifices are proabably plugged. I don't have tons of experience with small engines,but I never seen a fuel filter plug to the point that no fuel flows.

Cleaning the carb is pretty simple. The most important think is knowing where to set the needle valve. Best method is to count # of turns it takes to bottom out (tighten) then remove completely. Some carb cleaner and maybe a fine wire to push clog through needle valve orifice. Put needle valve back to same setting and chances are it will start right up.

You can change the fuel filter, but really don't think it will change the outcome. It won't hurt to change, but doubt it will solve the problem. Also, the one fuel filter I did change was a pain to change because line in tank is not long enough to be able to get to the filter. My thoughts are that if you can change the filter, cleaning the carb would be very doable.

 
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06-25-09, 09:04 AM   #14  
Posted By: cgar Cleaning the carb is pretty simple. The most important think is knowing where to set the needle valve. Best method is to count # of turns it takes to bottom out (tighten) then remove completely. Some carb cleaner and maybe a fine wire to push clog through needle valve orifice. Put needle valve back to same setting and chances are it will start right up. You can change the fuel filter, but really don't think it will change the outcome. It won't hurt to change, but doubt it will solve the problem. Also, the one fuel filter I did change was a pain to change because line in tank is not long enough to be able to get to the filter. My thoughts are that if you can change the filter, cleaning the carb would be very doable.
Okay then for now maybe I won't go to a lot of trouble finding a new replacement fuel filter and attempting to replace it. Instead maybe I'll attempt the carb cleaning as you mention. Here's a quote from another source about cleaning chainsaw carbs, perhaps you would care to comment:
"The only way to thoroughly clean the carburetor is remove it and totally disassemble it, it's the only way you will ever be sure it is clean. With the disassembled use a wire from a wire tie to clean every air and fuel passages and blow them out with carburetor cleaner or compressed air. Purchase a carburetor kit and new mounting gaskets install the carburetor kit and use the new mounting gaskets when you put a carburetor back on then drain the fuel tank clean the fuel cap vent and back flush the fuel tank where the fuel comes out replaced the fuel filter and if the fuel line is old replace it also."

 
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06-25-09, 09:33 AM   #15  
Filters can and do get clogged to the point they will restrict flow. Not only the filter but the fuel line itself and if you replace the filter, you should also replace the fuel line that it connects to.
You should have fuel flow to the inlet of the carb, if not the line or filter or an empty fuel tank is likely to blame.
As for the carb, I agree the best is to take it off and apart and clean thoroughly and service with a kit.
If you find that the filter and or line is a problem, it would still be a good idea to service the carb as it is likely contaminated also.

 
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06-25-09, 09:55 AM   #16  
Agreed that filters can and I am sure do plug. I usually like to start with the simple things first. Cleaning the carb is very simple and I wouldn't really worry about a rebuilt kit with new gaskets at this point.

I do agree that the best way is to remove the carb (2 bolts). You should definatley remove the needle valve because this is where the fuel enters the carb. I suspect this is pluged with varnish. Avoid getting the carb cleaner on the gaskests. Some o-rings tend to expand/deform when contacted with carb cleaner so I always set the gasket to the side. Assemble and try starting. Chances are this alone should do the trick. I know I've started many small engines that sat for years doing just this. You can then later follow up with a carb kit to replace gaskets etc.... I think it is worth just tying to clean the carb. I have a few 2 cycle tools over 15 years old and I have never rebuilt the carb in either. I don't even use fuel stabilizer in the winter. They always start right up in the spring (I don't even drain the fuel). Just recently I cleaned the carb in one and working like a charm. This is why I say, try the simple (inexpesive) things first. The cleaning costs nothing except some time and a little carb cleaner. If it doesn't work, you can move on to rebuilt kits/replacment parts.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 
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06-25-09, 12:15 PM   #17  
Posted By: cgar I do agree that the best way is to remove the carb (2 bolts). You should definatley remove the needle valve because this is where the fuel enters the carb.
Okay I've got the carb removed, and have a can of carb cleaner ready. So how do I get to the needle valve now? Start unscrewing plates n stuff from the carb, disassembling it to some extent and hoping tiny springs don't start jumping out and tiny parts dont fall out? Thats usually whats happened in the past when I've tried to take any carbs apart, and I want to avoid that.

 
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06-25-09, 12:34 PM   #18  
The needle valves is basically the screws which have spring under them. The spring provides tension so that it does not unthread by itself due to vibration. The spring is good size maybe 3/16" diameter so you shouldn't lose it.

Before you unscrew the screws (probably have a hi speed and low speed screw), you should confirm were it is set so that you can put it back.

To check were each screw is, start tightening it and while doing it count # of turns it takes for it to stop (one might be 1.5 turns and the other 3/4 turns). Write all this down. Too much recorded info is so much better than not enough info.

You can then remove the screw. Spray carb cleaner into these opening, through the main carb, etc.. Look closely into the carb and opening and look for any deposits, obstructions. Once you are fairly sure everything is clean, reassemble. Make sure you put the screw back as you found. Thread them in all the way and then back out exactly the same amount as it was.

While you are at it, I would remove the spark plug and clean that if need (if all black, fine sandpaper to expose metal).

Good luck.

 
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06-25-09, 03:31 PM   #19  
Posted By: cgar Good luck.
I followed the instructions you provided on cleaning the needle valves and spraying/cleaning all orifices, etc. with the carb cleaner, wrote down needle valve adjustment prior to removing, etc. Brand new spark plug, correct one. Re-assembled and get same no-go result on trying to start, no different than before. Pulled fuel filter and examined it, took off filter material and examined filter housing. Filter and housing clean and clear. Examined fuel lines for good connections and possible damage, etc. All looks fine and good with fuel lines. Tried and tried, but will not get fuel. Only starts/runs briefly (but quite well) when I put a few teaspoons of gas into the spark plug hole. When that gas runs out, that's it. Doesnt draw its own gas.

 
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06-25-09, 04:47 PM   #20  
You still need a carb kit.. Now you have verified the filter & lines are O.K. & the mechanics of the saw are O.K. The diaghragms of these carbs get hard & stiff (especially with todays fuels) & the fuel pump & meetering diaghragms won't work to pump or meter the fuel through the carb.... When you find out what carb is on it (warlbro, zama, etc) go to there website,, They have excellent service manuals,,, With a good cleaning & a kit, It'll probably run like new.. The meetering diaghragm should be about as flexable as the material of a rubber glove... I bet yours kinda ""Pops"" if you push it back & forth on the center,, Right??? Roger

 
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06-25-09, 08:13 PM   #21  
Posted By: hopkinsr2 You still need a carb kit.. Now you have verified the filter & lines are O.K. & the mechanics of the saw are O.K. The diaghragms of these carbs get hard & stiff (especially with todays fuels) & the fuel pump & meetering diaghragms won't work to pump or meter the fuel through the carb.... When you find out what carb is on it (warlbro, zama, etc) go to there website,, They have excellent service manuals,,, With a good cleaning & a kit, It'll probably run like new.. The meetering diaghragm should be about as flexable as the material of a rubber glove... I bet yours kinda ""Pops"" if you push it back & forth on the center,, Right??? Roger
I havent disassembled the carb yet to look at the diaphragm.

The carb on this saw is a Tillotson.

When I go to this web site till3 and click on tech info then service manuals there does not appear to be an option listed to download either an HK or RK service manual, so I'm not sure how I might be able to acquire the proper manual for this specific carb.

The fourth kit down shown on this web site/page looks like the kit I need. Apparently it's $8.99.
Tillotson Carburetor Kits

My carb is the RK-32-HK type.

Also, here on ebay I can get the kit, but for $14.99.
repair REBUILD KIT CARB CARBURETOR tillotson HK rk32hk - eBay (item 130307620647 end time Jul-18-09 16:49:31 PDT)

Either way I would need to acquire the proper manual in addition to the kit. Dont know where to get it. Any suggestions/comments? thanks

 
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06-26-09, 08:26 AM   #22  
You'll get the idea from any of the manuals, as long as they are the diaghragm type.... Just take it apart slowly & make notes Or better yet,,,, Pictures.. Once you get it apart,, You'll see it's pretty easy... The only adjustment inside is the meetering lever & if you measure the old one (before removing it) I think it will be flush with the carb body... (someone correct me if I'm wrong)) Roger

 
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06-26-09, 10:35 AM   #23  
Posted By: hopkinsr2 The meetering diaghragm should be about as flexable as the material of a rubber glove... I bet yours kinda ""Pops"" if you push it back & forth on the center,, Right???
Actually there are two diaphragms, according to the parts breakdown diagram I found online for a similar but not exact Tillotson carb. One is what is called the "main diaphragm" which is located under the diaphragm cover plate, and the other is the "fuel pump diaphragm" which is located under the pump cover plate. Not sure which one is what is considered the metering diaphragm, but as I examine both of these neither kinda pops when I push it back and forth, and both seem to be flexible like a rubber glove (a very thin rubber glove) as you mentioned, and neither appear to be damaged in any way.

 
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06-26-09, 12:39 PM   #24  
The metering diaphragm is the one on the needle valve side, looks like a spoked wheel.
Also there is a small screen in a recessed hole about...1/4" in size..should come with a full kit or remove it carefully and clean. If it is in the kit just replace it or get one as you may damage it removing the old one.

 
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06-26-09, 01:01 PM   #25  
Posted By: BFHFixit The metering diaphragm is the one on the needle valve side, looks like a spoked wheel.
Also there is a small screen in a recessed hole about...1/4" in size..should come with a full kit or remove it carefully and clean. If it is in the kit just replace it or get one as you may damage it removing the old one.
Okay I see the metering diaphragm as you describe.
But it doesn't seem stiff or damaged or anything. It was mentioned here earlier that it might "pop" when I push on the middle and might not be as flexible as a rubber glove if it's bad. But it doesnt pop and is flexible. So should I still assume it needs replacing and is a likely cause of my issue?

 
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06-26-09, 02:45 PM   #26  
The kits are pretty common and if you can get one, and you have it apart, I would not reuse the old ones. You can try the old ones but if you still have issues then you can not rule out the gaskets in the carb. If there is any sign of pucker around the edges or creases of if they stuck when you pulled them out....for less than 10 bucks, you could be sippin a beer instead of sucking air pulling that apart later.

 
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06-26-09, 05:02 PM   #27  
Posted By: BFHFixit If there is any sign of pucker around the edges or creases of if they stuck when you pulled them out....for less than 10 bucks, you could be sippin a beer instead of sucking air pulling that apart later.
It's not that I would want to re-use the old diaphragm if I had the kit which of course would include a new one, I'm just to more or less trying to verify beforehand, if possible, whether it's a bad diaphragm causing the issue. I guess to my eye I can see some possible slight pucker or creases around the edge of the diaphragm, as you mention. Beer 4U2

 
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07-15-09, 01:36 PM   #28  
I've rebuilt the carb now using a Tillotson repair kit which included new diaphragms, gaskets, screen, control lever, etc.

The saw will at least always start and run now by itself, but only for 5-8 seconds, then always cut out. Now I can at least tell there is gas pumping to the carb, as I can see it in the clear gas line, whereas before there was absolutely no gas pumping. One thing I did notice was on the plastic fitting (on the saw) where the gas line exits the gas tank and goes to the carb, there is seepage/wetness of gas developing on/around that fitting as the saw runs (obvious leakage going on). On that fitting there are two nipples, one of which is the connection for the gas line and another one which is a thin, threaded nipple that is plugged with a short section of hose with a ball bearing in it. On examination, it seems the only place this leakage comes from is from those threads that the short plugged hose connects to. I put a new short plugged length of hose on there, thinking the old one maybe wasn't making a good seal or something, but I still am getting that seepage/leakage at there and having the early cut-out issue on starting. First of all, what is that other outlet on the fuel tank outlet fitting (the one that is plugged)? And need further advice on what may be actually leaking and causing my issue with saw cutting out. Thanks

 
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07-15-09, 04:10 PM   #29  
Have you tried to adjust the carb??? Now it's pumping fuel try to open the jets slightly & see if that helps... I'm not sure about the other fitting... A vent for the tank maybe???? Roger

 
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07-15-09, 04:24 PM   #30  
Posted By: hopkinsr2 Have you tried to adjust the carb??? Now it's pumping fuel try to open the jets slightly & see if that helps... I'm not sure about the other fitting... A vent for the tank maybe?
No, haven't tried adjusting the carb yet. It has three adjusting screws, one marked H and one marked L (other bigger one for the throttle I guess?).

So which adjusting screw do I turn, and which way, to see if it helps?

I think the other fitting is probably a vent for the tank like you suggest. But if so, why does it have the short piece of hose on it with the ball-bearing in it, essentially plugging the vent? I took the hose (plug) off and tried it too, but with same result, so just put it back on. I noticed the threaded fitting that the hose with the plug I described has a factory drilled hole through the shaft, not sure what's up with this vent situation. Seems like that's where my gas seepage is happening, out that vent.

 
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07-15-09, 05:09 PM   #31  
The screw marked H is your high speed adjustment and The one marked L is your low speed mixture adjustment. The larger unmarked one is your idle speed. Turning the H L screws to the left gives i a richer mixture (more gas) and to the right less of course. Turning the large idle screw to the right increases idle speed and left of course decreases. I start by turning the L to the left about 1/4 turn and the idle screw right about 1/2 turn and go from there according to what it does.

 
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07-15-09, 05:21 PM   #32  
Thanks hoputt for that explanation of the screw adjustments. So far then I've tried turning the low idle screw to the left in progressively quarter increments and seeing what it does. Seems like the best that happens is the saw will run (idle) maybe ten seconds on its own, sounds good and all, but then always just cuts right out. Then I can start it again and have it idle like that another ten secs or so, but then it just keeps cutting out every time.

 
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07-15-09, 05:42 PM   #33  
did you adjust the idle screw by turning it to the right, if not do so and see if that helps.

 
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07-15-09, 06:18 PM   #34  
Posted By: hoputt did you adjust the idle screw by turning it to the right, if not do so and see if that helps.
Okay, turned idle screw to the right. Same result. It runs about 10 seconds and then dies out. If I pull the choke about half way it will run longer sometimes but when I squeeze the throttle it dies.

 
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07-15-09, 07:32 PM   #35  
When you say ""Idle Screw"" are you talking about the ""Idle Mixture"" or the ""Idle Speed""... What screw are you adjusting???? To me it sounds like the mixture screw,, Right??? Turn both mixture screws in 'till they seat lightly & back them out 1 1/2 turns each & try it.. Right now you have no idea what the adjustments are so lets start from scratch!!! Also did you adjust the metering lever that came with the kit to the proper height??? This can have a MAJOR factor on the way the saw will run... Roger

 
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07-15-09, 08:23 PM   #36  
Posted By: hopkinsr2 When you say ""Idle Screw"" are you talking about the ""Idle Mixture"" or the ""Idle Speed""... What screw are you adjustingTurn both mixture screws in 'till they seat lightly & back them out 1 1/2 turns each & try it. Also did you adjust the metering lever that came with the kit to the proper height?
So far, per suggestion(s) posted in this thread (after doing the "rebuild"), I've opened the low speed mixture adjustment screw in increments of quarter turns to see if that would help. When that didn't seem to make a difference, I tried turning the large unmarked screw (the idle speed adjustment) to the right about half a turn. I have not yet made any adjustment to the high speed adjustment screw. I can, as you suggest, go ahead and start from scratch and turn both mixture screws in until they seat lightly & back them out 1 1/2 turns each & try it. After I installed the new metering lever that came with the kit, I looked at it and it was flush with the carb body. Instructions said to make sure it was flush with the carb body and that if it wasn't to bend it up or down as required. If I remember correctly, the bottom surface of the new lever was exactly flush with the carb body, so I didn't see a need to bend it any. If after I turn both mixture screws in until they seat lightly and then back then out one and a half turns each and try it and I still keep getting this same cut-out after 10 seconds or so of running, what might be next thing to try/check?

Also, now I'm starting to assume now that trying to adjust the large unmarked "idle speed" screw has little if any relation to the issue I'm having. Am I right about that?

 
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07-15-09, 09:38 PM   #37  
Correct, that screw only adjusts the idle rpm. Sounds like you still have carb issues. Make the adjustments to the mixture screws and see where that gets you.


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07-16-09, 12:23 PM   #38  
it's running!

I turned the mixture screws all the way in and then backed them out one and a half turns. Then I tried starting it, but with the same 10 second cut-out as before. This time, during the brief period it would run, I sprayed a shot of carb cleaner around the carb to see what would happen. It would keep running as long as I kept spraying in one particular area, between the carb body and where the air horn I guess its called meet (gasket in between). It was apparently sucking air there, even though I had a new gasket there. I removed the carb again, and upon closer inspection discovered that I had put the air horn in upside down before (after my rebuild) so it looked like it was okay to the naked eye but was actually a gap there, sucking air. Turned it the right way, and now it runs great. Probably will need to try to fine-tune the mixtures and idle, but so far seems to run and idle fine.

So I tried cutting some wood but the chain teeth are very, very dull, so I'll need to either get a new chain or try to sharpen this one. I measured the bar, seems to measure about 27 inches. Any suggestions appreciated for whether I should try to sharpen these teeth myself (never done it before) or just get a new chain or what.

Thanks for all the help here guys.

 
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07-16-09, 12:36 PM   #39  
Get a new chain, in fact buy two. They'll run about $17.00 a piece.

Sharpening them yourself isn't complicated, but when the teeth take a couple of sharpenings you have to knock the gauges down a little. To do that in the way it needs done is more difficult than it sounds.

If you only do a little cutting with the saw, buy two chains, and have the old one sharpened for back up. Then sharpen the two new ones a couple of times yourself as they need it, then have them sharpened by a shop for a couple of bucks and have them set the gauges. Then do those two more times yourself and so on. That way your gauges will be right all the time.

 
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07-16-09, 06:59 PM   #40  
Posted By: marbobj Get a new chain, in fact buy two. They'll run about $17.00 a piece. Sharpening them yourself isn't complicated, but when the teeth take a couple of sharpenings you have to knock the gauges down a little. To do that in the way it needs done is more difficult than it sounds. If you only do a little cutting with the saw, buy two chains, and have the old one sharpened for back up. Then sharpen the two new ones a couple of times yourself as they need it, then have them sharpened by a shop for a couple of bucks and have them set the gauges. Then do those two more times yourself and so on. That way your gauges will be right all the time.
To save time I just went to a chainsaw shop and bought a new chain from the local Stihl dealer instead of messing around playing guessing games at the hardware store whether any of their chains off the rack would happen to work for this particular saw. The guy at the Stihl shop of course used Stihl chain. He asked if I wanted professional or safety chain, I told him safety chain. He put one together from a roll of chain (that's the way they do it) and charged by the link, forty cents link or something like that. Ended up costing 40 bucks.

I'll research a little and try to learn more about sharpening old chains myself, and about setting gauges, etc. I am unclear about what you mean by the suggestion that I would sharpen new ones up a couple of times and then have them sharpened by a shop for a couple of bucks. If I sharpened them up myself why then would I have a shop sharpen them? And I doubt that if I did have a shop sharpen them it would only cost a "couple of bucks." Nothing costs a couple of bucks anymore.
Sure is nice to get this old Sachs Dolmar running.

 
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