Kohler K582 Not Charging

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  #1  
Old 12-08-09, 06:47 PM
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Kohler K582 Not Charging

Ok, so one of my employees was on a job last night and the K582 engine died. He jumped the battery as he noticed when he went to start it back up that it sounded like it had a dead battery. I ran a volt check back at the battery and it was only 12.2. I thought at first it was the voltage regulator, so I replaced it. Ran check again, same thing. So next I pull out the service manual and start checking the tests listed in the book:

With engine running at operating speed I checked the voltage coming off of B+, only carrying like 9.5 volts.

Next I disconnected leads checked AC volts from stator leads at operating speed got a reading of like 35 volts AC.

Then I shut the engine down and checked resistance across stator leads and got a reading of .4 ohms, book says 0.064/0.2 is acceptable. Checked another engine (I have 2 of the same) that one was 0.5, but is charging, so I don't know if this tells me anything.

Next I check the resistance of each stator lead to ground, and find infinity ohms on both, so that checks out ok.

I think maybe I got a bad voltage regulator so replace it with the VR from the functioning engine. Same thing, only carrying about 9.5 volts off of B+.

What should I try next? I am down to only 2 operating units, putting a new engine in one of the machines tomorrow and need to figure out what is going on with this one and another that I am going to post about in a minute.

I am leaning towards the stator, but I am confused as all the tests in the book test ok.
 
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Old 12-08-09, 07:23 PM
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What is the engine Spec number?
 
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Old 12-08-09, 07:31 PM
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Spec # is 36202. Thanks.
 
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Old 12-08-09, 07:47 PM
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I thought with the Spec number I could see what amperage rated system the engine had but the parts list does not show it.

I will give thought to you problem in the morning

Link to manual.
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec...df/ens_607.pdf
 
  #5  
Old 12-08-09, 07:50 PM
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Already have the manual. It is a 15 amp system. Thanks!
 
  #6  
Old 12-09-09, 08:04 AM
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Hello

I believe it might be the Stator.

I had a stator work nice when cold worked great. As soon as it got hot it started to ground out and not charge. Did eveything you did and same issue.

Then the battery carried the load until dead. Recharged the battery and it ran great and then as the Stator got hot Voltage dropped it did it again.

You maybe right!

Henry
 
  #7  
Old 12-09-09, 08:36 AM
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I think your stator is ok, putting out over 28v.
Did you do the load "test A" in the troubleshooting chart in the manual?
Might have to rig up a DC load to put on the battery. Jumper cables or wires and a car headlight...? or similar DC load....

Also might check for a short...disconnect the negative terminal of the battery and connect a meter between the ground post of the battery and the disconnected ground cable...check for voltage.
 
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Old 12-13-09, 04:22 PM
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Replaced stator, same thing. Only carrying 9 DC volts from B+ on regulator. Ran the regulator on another machine with the same engine, not the regulator. I am really getting frustrated with this. Also, no short. Next ideas? I need to get this fixed so I can focus on other things.
 
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Old 12-13-09, 04:53 PM
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Yeah, your stator was fine with the voltage it was putting out. Make sure the case of the regulator is properly grounded to the shroud. Sometimes it is necessary to run a wire from the mounting screw to the block or sheet metal to ground it. Otherwise, you may have a bad/shorted battery that is drawing the amperage down beyond what the stator can produce.
 
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Old 12-13-09, 05:16 PM
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I have tried 2 different batteries and get the same results. I will try the ground, but I also have the TINY TACH grounded there and that is working fine. Now I am wondering if I should change the battery ground? The wire seems to be fine and tight, but maybe it has some corrosion. I just thought about that and have not checked it. These engines are on truckmounted carpet cleaners and are exposed to water, so I guess that could be a problem.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 06:47 AM
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When you measured 9.5 volts at B+, was that with it connected?
If so what do you get with it DIS connected?...B+ to ground?
 
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Old 12-14-09, 02:43 PM
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That is with it connected. With it disconnected I can't remember, but I will check it again. Still not getting it ack to the battery with it connected. Replaced the ground today as the ground cable was looking a little rough and same thing. I am about at wits end with this and the other one that is giving me a headache. I also ran ground from the voltage regulator to the frame of the machine and same thing. Is there something I am missing? I have not replaced the hot wire from the battery to the starter. Could this be a problem? Also, the magnets on the flywheel are all there, but they are a little dirty. I cleaned them off with brakleen and compressed air when I replaced the stator. I am just wondering if the magnets could be the problem, but I get 34 AC volts at operating speed.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 07:13 PM
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The AC voltage reading is telling us the stator and magnets are good and doing what they should. The problem is due to wiring, regulator, connections, or a short.
 
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Old 12-14-09, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cheese View Post
The AC voltage reading is telling us the stator and magnets are good and doing what they should. The problem is due to wiring, regulator, connections, or a short.
That's what I thought, just grasping here. Now if I can track down the short. Any thoughts on the hot wire from the batt to the starter? It has the same voltage at both ends.
 
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Old 12-15-09, 05:46 AM
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You have not confirmed, or if so not posted, that you are getting correct voltage out of the rectifier. With the B+ disconnected, you should get around 14.7 VDC.
I also posted a way you could check for shorts in the system. You won't be able to find a short unless you confirm there is a short.

You posted that you already have the manual Airman posted a link to, however, not any information from the tests that are listed for diagnosis in that manual.
Them electrons are tricky devious little fellas and its likely going to take systematic isolation and THEN some blind luck to find where they are sneaking off to.
 
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Old 12-15-09, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BFHFixit View Post
You have not confirmed, or if so not posted, that you are getting correct voltage out of the rectifier. With the B+ disconnected, you should get around 14.7 VDC.
I also posted a way you could check for shorts in the system. You won't be able to find a short unless you confirm there is a short.

You posted that you already have the manual Airman posted a link to, however, not any information from the tests that are listed for diagnosis in that manual.
Them electrons are tricky devious little fellas and its likely going to take systematic isolation and THEN some blind luck to find where they are sneaking off to.

I am only getting 9.5 volts out of the B+, either connected or disconnected, that is all I am getting, as stated in my first post.

I checked for shorts.....no voltage from ground to ground terminal on batt....with it disconnected.

Read my 1st post again. All tests were done according to the service manual and results in the 1st post.
 
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Old 12-16-09, 06:05 AM
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If you are only getting 9.5 volts with B+ disconnected then I would say there is no point in checking anything further until you are able to see correct voltage at that point.

I read your first post and you did not stipulate.

Sorry for any confusion...good luck.
 
  #18  
Old 12-16-09, 04:32 PM
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Did you do the no-charge test on page 7.10 of the manual?

You have the electromechanical regulator, with a cutout relay and voltage/current regulating relay? Most of the schematics don't seem to match this regulator, they show too many regulator terminals.

You might also try another, fully-charged, known-good battery.

The first graph in this link shows 12.2v for a battery not being charged means it is 30% charged.
http://www.scubaengineer.com/documen...ing_graphs.pdf
The C rate is the amp-hour battery rating in amps; C = 30A charging current for a 30 amp-hour battery, C/5 would be a charging rate of 6A for a 30 A-h batt. For a 20 A-h battery C = 20A and C/5 = 4A.
 
  #19  
Old 12-16-09, 08:42 PM
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Did the test on page 7.12. I have a 15 amp system. I have a 3 post voltage regulator. I have tried several batteries, but I may try another just in case. I am planning on borrowing my buddies load tester tomorrow to see if the battery tests good.
 
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Old 12-17-09, 06:32 AM
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With your regulator, as long as the V/I relay is not pulled in, the gen. should be putting out its maximum.
During operation the relay armature flutters, continually adjusting the output voltage or current limit, as necessary.
 
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