Troy Bilt Chipper Shredder RPM Issue + Belt

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  #1  
Old 05-15-10, 12:32 PM
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Troy Bilt Chipper Shredder RPM Issue + Belt

I inherited a Troy Bilt Chipper Shredder, Model # 11390 w/ a B&S 8 HP motor.

1. It takes 5 or 6 attempts to engage the hammers, no matter how slow I move the clutch lever. I move the lever like honey in January and it still bogs down the engine and usually stalls. I have let the engine warm up for 3 or 4 minutes, the carb was rebuilt last summer, fuel is fresh, air filter is new... not sure what to do. Its designed to run at high rpms and there is no throttle adjustment. As the engine slows, it appears that the governor regulates the engine and increases rpms when there is load from the chipper. Any ideas / suggestions?

2. Anyone know the proper belt for this machine (generic is fine)?

Thanks.
 
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  #2  
Old 05-15-10, 03:20 PM
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Welcome to the forums!

I also have an older troybilt chipper. I used to hate to use it due to engaging problems.... but then I figured it out any small chip/twig left in the works can stop it up just enough to drive you crazy when you try to engage the chipper. Now I open it up from the bottom shoot and reach in any remove any wood I can find. After closing it back up - it will engage with no problems.

I'm still running the original belt. I know it's stretched because I need to hang a bucket on the handle to keep it engaged
 
  #3  
Old 05-15-10, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by marksr View Post
Welcome to the forums!

I also have an older troybilt chipper. I used to hate to use it due to engaging problems.... but then I figured it out any small chip/twig left in the works can stop it up just enough to drive you crazy when you try to engage the chipper. Now I open it up from the bottom shoot and reach in any remove any wood I can find. After closing it back up - it will engage with no problems.

I'm still running the original belt. I know it's stretched because I need to hang a bucket on the handle to keep it engaged
Hey marksr,
nothing is stuck in the hammers or between the flywheel/bearings. I even oiled the bearings and everything spins freely by hand. It just seems the mass of the assembly is too heavy compared to the engine speed. I need to increase the engine rpms, but not sure how to do it.

regarding your belt, you can adjust the clutch engagement to increase tension. Belts never stretch, they do crack, glaze and get "narrower" as the sides of the V wear. Once their width decreases, the belt will fall farther down into the groove of the pulleys and loose traction/slip.
 
  #4  
Old 05-15-10, 06:38 PM
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Is the carburetor throttle shaft stuck? Can you engage the clutch and watch the governor open the throttle?
 
  #5  
Old 05-15-10, 07:17 PM
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cheese,
yes I can see the governor move and try to increase speed as the clutch is engaged, but it is not enough to get the hammers moving quick enough to recover.
Is this adjustable?
I only see an idle adjustment and a mixture screw.
thanks.
 
  #6  
Old 05-16-10, 06:18 PM
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Here's an odd response for you.... Grease viscosity....

As handymen we all think the better the grade of grease the better it will lubricate... But what is better? The best for the job thats what

All too often the handy man will look through the display rack of grease and see "High Temp" and think thats the best choice for all applications, after all ..It can take high temps right?

The problem is high temp greases (NLGI Grades 4-5 ) are very hard to start with , hence they impede rotation of bearings until they reach operating temp's and begin to soften (Melt)

Sure you can spin the flail cage smoothly by hand... but how fast does it stop? Pretty dam fast don't it

Try downgrading to a softer NLGI grade 1 grease by pumping it in until all the old grease clears out ...(Especially in cold weather) Now spin the cage by hand again... It kept going for almost another full rotation didn't it

Also slip clutch belts are differint than standard belts... They are impregnated with silica to enable them to slip when intended without burning up the rubber and have extra bite when tightened... never replace with a standard rubber belt that will cause pulleys to glaze ...it sucks that that belt in the parts manual costs so much... but there is a reason

On the issue of having to warm up the engine before it will stay running after you engauge the chipper cage ? Just how old is this unit?...How many faithful seasons has that lil' old single cylinder wonder served you? That ain't a lawn mower they're on...those chippers put some serious wear and tear on an engine, constantly going from free wheeling light load ( once the cage is up to free RPM's) to serious shock heavy loads all day...Those engines get tired... Maybe we could think about replacing the engine (Harbor Frieght, Northern Hydraulics)... or just let the old girl take her sweet time

Ps in hot weather run engine on SAE 30 weight oil (straight 30 weight) around September change it out for SAE 5w 30 oil ...That also has a bearing on how fast an engine gets to operating temp
 
  #7  
Old 05-16-10, 10:22 PM
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From the description, and since the governor is working, it sounds to me like it is running just a bit too lean, and the sudden opening of the throttle is making it bog and die from a lean mixture. Try backing out the mixture screw 1/2 turn or so and see if it improves. If not, I recommend cleaning the carburetor.
 
  #8  
Old 05-17-10, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cheese View Post
From the description, and since the governor is working, it sounds to me like it is running just a bit too lean, and the sudden opening of the throttle is making it bog and die from a lean mixture. Try backing out the mixture screw 1/2 turn or so and see if it improves. If not, I recommend cleaning the carburetor.
cheese,
OK, I will back out the mixture screw and see if it helps. Thanks.
 
  #9  
Old 05-17-10, 08:02 PM
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[QUOTE=TheBlackLab;1728139]Here's an odd response for you.... Grease viscosity....

As handymen we all think the better the grade of grease the better it will lubricate... But what is better? The best for the job thats what

All too often the handy man will look through the display rack of grease and see "High Temp" and think thats the best choice for all applications, after all ..It can take high temps right?

The problem is high temp greases (NLGI Grades 4-5 ) are very hard to start with , hence they impede rotation of bearings until they reach operating temp's and begin to soften (Melt)

Sure you can spin the flail cage smoothly by hand... but how fast does it stop? Pretty dam fast don't it

>> If I give the hammers / cage a good spin by hand, it will rotate 5 or 6 revolutions. I would say its pretty free.

Try downgrading to a softer NLGI grade 1 grease by pumping it in until all the old grease clears out ...(Especially in cold weather) Now spin the cage by hand again... It kept going for almost another full rotation didn't it

>> I used SAE30 to lube it, not grease.

Also slip clutch belts are differint than standard belts... They are impregnated with silica to enable them to slip when intended without burning up the rubber and have extra bite when tightened... never replace with a standard rubber belt that will cause pulleys to glaze ...it sucks that that belt in the parts manual costs so much... but there is a reason

On the issue of having to warm up the engine before it will stay running after you engauge the chipper cage ? Just how old is this unit?...How many faithful seasons has that lil' old single cylinder wonder served you? That ain't a lawn mower they're on...those chippers put some serious wear and tear on an engine, constantly going from free wheeling light load ( once the cage is up to free RPM's) to serious shock heavy loads all day...Those engines get tired... Maybe we could think about replacing the engine (Harbor Frieght, Northern Hydraulics)... or just let the old girl take her sweet time

>> My guess is the chipper was made between 1985 and 1989. Based on the appearance of the hammers, pulleys, tires, electric starter, bearings, condition of the chipper blade, etc, I can safely state that this machine has been hardly used. The previous owner said he always had a lawn service and never had a need for the machine. The engine should have many years of life still in it.

Ps in hot weather run engine on SAE 30 weight oil (straight 30 weight) around September change it out for SAE 5w 30 oil ...That also has a bearing on how fast an engine gets to operating temp
>> I replaced the crankcase oil with SAE30 after I took ownership and before I ran the machine.



.
 
  #10  
Old 05-18-10, 12:36 AM
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Ok so then we'll concentrate on the engine

Is there a posibility the linkage rod from the governer got bent
, hence impeading the ability to come back to full throttle?

Also what engine is on the machine?

And lastly..and I've only seen this once ,on a B-line 5" cap chipper with a V-twin Honda on it....A centrifigul clutch in addition to the slip belt engaugement ...it was designed for the centrifigul to only slip slightly when the lever was thrown to reduce torque effects on the belts when engauged (this wasn't no baby chipper..it was twin blade's on a 200lb Gyro wheel as opposed to the shredder cage you have.

But what happened was the clutch roller bearing froze up so the belts (it had 3 ) would burn and the engine would bog upon engauging the lever ....Without hands/ Eyes on I can only throw out suggestions
 
  #11  
Old 05-20-10, 08:23 PM
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[QUOTE=TheBlackLab;1728540]Ok so then we'll concentrate on the engine

Is there a posibility the linkage rod from the governer got bent
, hence impeading the ability to come back to full throttle?

>> Linkage looks straight and no sign of damage or misalignment.

Also what engine is on the machine?

>> Model: 190417
Type: 3033-01
Code: 88110710


And lastly..and I've only seen this once ,on a B-line 5" cap chipper with a V-twin Honda on it....A centrifigul clutch in addition to the slip belt engaugement ...it was designed for the centrifigul to only slip slightly when the lever was thrown to reduce torque effects on the belts when engauged (this wasn't no baby chipper..it was twin blade's on a 200lb Gyro wheel as opposed to the shredder cage you have.

But what happened was the clutch roller bearing froze up so the belts (it had 3 ) would burn and the engine would bog upon engauging the lever ....Without hands/ Eyes on I can only throw out suggestions

>> Clutch seems to move freely, but hard to tell if it has issues while it is running.[/QUOTE]
 
  #12  
Old 05-21-10, 02:47 PM
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Oh...wow man (dejected, kicks dust) you've got one of those friggin' down draft carbs on that thing I hate those dam things....fickle as all hell ( and with the advent of ethanol enriched fuel they just got a hell of alot pickier)

By any chance does this thing belch a puff of darker smoke when engauged?

well any way the initial settings for both the low and high idle screws should be 1 1/2 turns out from fully seated.

setting the high idle screw properly (from the 1 1/2 initial) is really gonna suck, as it should be done under full load (a bit of a pain in the ass for a chipper)... as she bogs down when you engauge it, back the high idle out in 1/16 turn increments

(Keep in mind that brand new out of the box most if not all chippers will bog slightly, and shake , rattle and roll a bit until the cage is up to full speed)

I'll include a link to a disassebled carb of your type so you can identify the high and low screws (they call the high the main jet)

Also remember, and this goes for every carb on the planet , when messing with the mixture screws , only tighten until gently seated, never crank them tight!!! You don't want to either distort the seat nor scar the needle. That would make getting smooth operation even more of a head ache , and that carb you've got there is a headache in itself.....Lemme know how you make out ...oops linky time


Disassembly of Briggs and Stratton Large Two-Piece Flo-Jet Carburetor

PS if your air filter has a foam wrap , and you oil it, don't go with a real tacky oil...alot of people are fond of using 2 cycle oil as it gets good and gooky... not for this engine... Try something nice and light...like Marvel Mystery Oil gooping up that filter wrap alone can cause fuel mixture problems, and make sure you wring it out completely..wet oil on the paper element of the filter swells the paper fibers also blocking airflow
 

Last edited by TheBlackLab; 05-21-10 at 02:58 PM. Reason: additional information
  #13  
Old 05-24-10, 10:35 AM
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>> Yes, it does have a down draft carb and yes it does burp out a second or two of dense, black smoke when you barely engage the pulley/clutch.

>> Thanks. The link is great.

>> The air filter is a fairly new paper / cartridge.
 
  #14  
Old 05-24-10, 03:26 PM
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That belch of smoke is a sign that the low speed idle should be leaned out a bit ... when the rpms drop while engaugeing she's loading up from the low speed idle jet....I Think

Here's a little test...pull the spark plug and look at the tip...Theres a range of appearances you may see from a light dusty grey (running way too lean) to wet brownish black (running way too rich) the optimum for a 4 stroke single cylinder engine is a light dusty brown.

I'm guessing your plug is gonna look a dusty browinsh black from loading up but burning a little leaner once it hits target rpms after engaugeing Beer 4U2...its really tough to figure out who your giving way too much information to, or who really gets it...I'm thinking you get it
 
  #15  
Old 06-01-10, 10:22 AM
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Thanks for the continuous support TheBlackLab. And yes, I do get it. The black belch now makes sense. I'll take a look at the plug and also lean up the slow needle jet a bit.
I have messed with small engines since I was very young (starting with Cox .049 engines on model airplanes at age 10 and my own Snapper mower with a total POS Tecumseh engine at age 11), but every brand and series seems to have its own peculiar issues.
Thanks again.
 
  #16  
Old 08-30-10, 02:45 PM
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The belt is a Briggs or Murray part # 97133. There is a cross reference part # W5L290 or W5L290 SPL.

My local NAPA auto parts store carries a replacement belt made by Gates, part # 5L290W, that works well, for $12.
 
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